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#124333 - 02/19/08 11:21 AM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: Dan_McI]
Stretch Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 707
Loc: Alamogordo, NM
Originally Posted By: Dan_McI
............Agreed, agreed, agreed. Need to be careful. But we cannot stop carrying and using.

If you start being afraid to carry or use it for an honorable reason, because of the kind of reaction you might get, then the person carrying it, you on the rare occasion, becomes even more unusual. And it becomes even easier to look at such a person as someone just out there to intimidate or threaten the public. When we start hiding our knives all the time, we stop being able to carry them.

First your ability to carry one thing goes, then you ability to carry something else goes too. Soon enough, picking up a stick could be looked at as criminal.


I think this is an excellent observation - the point being that we, in an effort to please others (by not "scaring" them, in this case), actually precipitate the prohibition long before a law is passed that prohibits by law what was formerly legal.
_________________________
DON'T BE SCARED
-Stretch

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#124346 - 02/19/08 01:15 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: GarlyDog]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yes, unfortunately I did have to talk with a New York cop after using an SAK on the subway to trim a fingernail. I was standing on the platform minding my own business and one of the locals asks me if I have a knife with me because he got a complaint. We talked for a while, I showed him my little classic, he asked me not to have it out at the subway any more and I said okay. His attitude indicated he was not real interested with having to do this (I found that quite a few NYC LEOs are not pleased to do much of anything these days beyond their usual routine). After that, I didn't display any knife while going through the subway system, although I did use it occasionally on the NJ Metro commuter train.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#124348 - 02/19/08 01:31 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: Dan_McI]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yep, that is about the size of it. I continue to be a strong advocate of keeping yourself armed/equipped as appropriate. I think it is a good idea that we be discreet when we do this, and not just so we don't scare the sheep, but also because it pays not to advertise that we have something someone else may want.

My experience has been that it depends on where you find yourself as to how open you want to be about your equipment. You have to be mindful of whose eyes are watching you, both the sheep and the wolves. In a more secure, friendly environment I have no problem breaking out the gear to do what I need, assist others, or sometimes even to show and tell, but not just anywhere.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#124349 - 02/19/08 01:34 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: benjammin]
Russ Online   content
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5254
Loc: SOCAL
Somebody actually dropped a dime on your Vic Classic? Incredible. My policy of staying clear of NYC is now set in concrete.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, whats your point??

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#124350 - 02/19/08 01:45 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: Russ]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I guess it can happen anywhere. NYC subways are probably more sensitive to that sorta thing than others, image and all that. They just seem to have a low tolerance for perceived threats. Maybe whoever ratted me out thought they were doing me a favor, I dunno.

There was another time long ago when I was carrying a concealed firearm (legally) and accidently flashed it while using a latrine. That got me kicked out of the establishment, despite it being legal for me to carry at that location, just cuz the patron who saw it felt I shouldn't be there armed, and mgmt didn't want a situation or reputation I guess. I didn't feel the need to stay, so my friends and I left and never went back.

_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#124463 - 02/20/08 02:30 AM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: benjammin]
GarlyDog Offline

Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 776
Loc: The People's Republic of IL
Ben: Thanks for sharing the details. I swore off mass transit long ago. But I will keep your advice in mind if I ever use mass-transit anything again.

Russ: I am with you on this one.

_________________________
Gary








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#124500 - 02/20/08 02:29 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: benjammin]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Originally Posted By: benjammin
There was another time long ago when I was carrying a concealed firearm (legally) and accidently flashed it while using a latrine. That got me kicked out of the establishment, despite it being legal for me to carry at that location, just cuz the patron who saw it felt I shouldn't be there armed, and mgmt didn't want a situation or reputation I guess. I didn't feel the need to stay, so my friends and I left and never went back.


Let's see, man carrying gun, leaves without using weapon, when asked to do so. Seems like you were a real threat to me, NOT.

I've been asked why I feel the need to have a weapon when someone has seen my multi-tool or SAK. Usually my response is to say because it's a tool not a weapon. Of course, sometimes I add in "and because my shotgun is too difficult to carry with me all the time."

Agree with Benjamin that some discretion is needed, and I do not break out my knives often in the subway. But I do in NYC, especially around people who know me and might be shocked by it. Sometimes, it's good to make the point that these things are tools, just like a car, and are normally not harmful when used responsibly. So, yes, I do look for chances at time for an excuse to use a knife.

There are millions of guns in North America, very few of them will harm anything living, nevermind a person, today. There are millions more knives in North America, most of the harm they do to people today will be self-inflicted and in someone's kitchen.


Edited by Dan_McI (02/20/08 02:31 PM)

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#124521 - 02/20/08 05:09 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: Dan_McI]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Maybe they kicked benjammin out because he didn't wash his hands?

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#124526 - 02/20/08 05:45 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: ]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
You've read my earlier posts about using public restrooms eh? There's a good reason why I don't, but I still practice good hygiene.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#124550 - 02/20/08 09:38 PM Re: Whipping It Out In Public! [Re: SwampDonkey]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2790
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Great topic. This sort of thing happens to me all the time. My family and friends are used to it, no big deal. I come from generations of pioneers and practical people; my father, grandfather, and great-grandfather carried a sharp tool always, and I take it as a badge of honour to do the same. A tool, mind you, not a weapon. Still, in urban and professional situations, such items can be misunderstood. I'm not responsible for reforming everyone's ill-considered attitudes (thank heaven). Discretion is the way to go.

A few things I have observed:

- the sharp "snick" of a locking blade makes some people goofy; dampen the sound as you open it

- if you hand somebody a knife, let them open the blade; somehow that ritual makes things less awkward

- small, blackened blades can be opened and used very discreetly

- if you have a full-sized SWAK, use the mini blade

- anything small on a keychain is generally okay; that's where my Vic Classic lives; sometimes I switch it for an ultra-mini Gerber

- nobody freaks out over scissors unless you make a big show of it; cheap, sharp, disposable scissors are best for briefcase and office; folding scissors like the Leathermans are mostly okay too

- finally, there's a body language aspect that I can't quite figure out; the way you present the tool for use is apparently more important than the tool itself; weird but true

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