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#122876 - 02/07/08 01:14 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]

Thinking to how I would deal with the situation personally I would think that physical survival would be fairly easy as long conditions weren't extreme.

The tough part would be mental survival. I'm anything but afraid of confined spaces but staying in said place for 3 days could really test your brain. Being able to occupy yourself.

In October I visited Alcatraz and took the audio tour (voiced by the guards and inmates who lived and worked there). One of the stories which stuck in my mind was related to the solitary confinement...where the prisoner would be in a very small cell for 23 hours a day...much of that in complete darkness.
Some of the things they came up with to occupy their time and save their sanity was truly amazing...I think it would take that sort of ingenuity (though maybe at not quite that extreme) to get through several days in one spot with enemies and danger all around you.

Then again it might be as simple as a deck of cards or some dice.

#122879 - 02/07/08 02:00 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: ]
Taurus Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 458
Loc: Northern Canada
I have had a few bad days overseas. I will admit from my own experiences that in a real life situation FEAR is usually what occupies the mind instead of boredom. Anyone who says otherwise is a blatant liar.

In training when you know you are really in no danger of being captured and tortured to death in unthinkable ways then the mindset is much less stressful, this is when bordom sets in. On my 10 day course I tried racing ants. A red one and a black one. I even built a little track for them to race on. It is amazing what intense boredom can reduce a person to do with his time. I think by day 5 I would have sold my soul for a Nintendo DS and a box of batteries. crazy

Edited by Taurus (02/07/08 02:04 AM)

#122896 - 02/07/08 03:38 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: ]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2816
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Interesting scenario, Taurus. Sounds primarily like a mental confidence exercise, though of course the gear helps the mind stay focused.

Fire, obviously, is not an option. The smell can travel a mile or more, and lead your adversary right to you.

So it's dig in, stay dry, insulate, and wait.

Which brings me to the knife of choice. It seems to me that digging will be more important than cutting. Dig a slit trench, dig holes to hide the scent of waste. So would the Cold Steel kukri you mentioned be a better choice? Or how about the Ontario SP8 short machete (which really looks like a sharpened pry bar)?

Then there's insect repellant. You know better than most how the little devils can sap your will to live. Low concentration DEET solutions are usually scented, and scent travels, which is bad. 100% DEET isn't, if I remember correctly. A few dabs on your head and neck may help keep you sane and in the game.

My two cents' worth.

#122897 - 02/07/08 03:48 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: dougwalkabout]

It's not shovel but the LMF II is a good digging knife.

I've read about snipers using it to dig/drill a hole through cinder block to make a gun port without adverse affect to the knife or even ruining it's edge much.

Plus the sheath has a draw through carbide sharpener even if the edge does get messed up.

#122900 - 02/07/08 04:26 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: dougwalkabout]
Taurus Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 458
Loc: Northern Canada
dougwalkabout - The Kukri is an excellent knife. I take it hunting a lot because of its ability to chop like an axe and dig like a mini spade. When carried with a good, small super sharp fixed blade or folder you are looking fairly good cutting ability wise in the field. For Military use though, it is too heavy and awkward to be humping a knife that big around.(it really lacks when it comes to the finer detailed jobs) While on duty I carry my Gerber LMF II because it is a very well rounded knife. Before I carried the Gerber I carried the SOG seal pup which is another well rounded field knife capable of any number of tasks. My biggest reason for switching to the Gerber was the sheath system, which in my opinion is second to none. My biggest beef with the LMF is that it doesnít come in a plain edge version( I ground the serrated part out of mine)

#122904 - 02/07/08 05:05 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
1) Issue repellent is fairly close to smelless.
2) If I go for a an enemy combatant with my kukri then its either a) He's just about to step on me range or b) I have to kill him quietly because a pistol/rifle shot will bring the enemy down on me time.
I don't do dumb & helpless.

#122907 - 02/07/08 08:25 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
SwampDonkey Offline

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Well it after 3.00am and I cannot sleep, because thinking about Taurus's interesting 3 day survival scenerio has kept me awake. I figure the only way to get some rest is to reply.

This survival situation is unique as you know in advance; how you are going to be isolated (helo crash, unhurt), that you will be pursued, a little about the site ((light forest with water), the time of year and usual weather conditions, what you will be wearing and carrying, and that the situation ends in 3 days.

Because you have this specific information you can custom construct your survival kit to address the course conditions and omit the items that are of no use to you, but may be required in a real "unknown" survival situation. An example of what I am thinking is signaling equipment (e.g. PLB, marker panels, strobe light), they would be terrific to have in a real situation but useless on this course.

Taurus I think the kit you carried on your initial course was well thought out, I have some suggestions (additions/deletions) below but they are not a large improvement over what you brought.

I think the survival sheet was a great idea to help keep you dry, it is worth the bulk.

Keep the Spark-lite and tinders, but remove the 6 wind/waterproof matches (there is a pack of back-up paper matches in the IMP, put them in the bread pouch with the dessicant to keep dry), and replace with a brightly coloured, taped closed mini-Bic lighter.

Add 4" carbon hacksaw blade for sawing and sparking using natural flint, chert or quartz. Sharpen front broken end of blade on angle for extra cutting edge.

Add Thill Bobber Light in Red colour. Good review here on Outdoor Magazine.com by SgtMike88Ret. http://outdoors-magazine.com/spip.phparticle209&var_recherche=thill&var_recherche=thill Long lasting, mini covert light for close-in work.

Remove the large Jetscream whistle and replace with already mentioned smaller cylindrical aluminum "buffalo" whistle. Modify whistle by cutting down both ends with hacksaw (removes almost 1/2 but does not effect sound), cut a shallow groove in the bottom of the aluminum body with a dremal tool and epoxy a short, thin ferro rod piece into the groove. The ferro rod off a Mag. block works well or even welding/lighter flints. Wrap electrical tape around mouthpiece so lips do not freeze in winter. I store small fishing sinkers in the hollow body of whistle, silence with cotton wool.

Add diamond knife sharpener (EZE-LAP Credit Card size or Key-Chain Sharpener, very small, be careful) or if you carry a Gerber LMF II knife then just use sharpener built-into the case.

Remove the tin-foil and replace with small aluminum loaf pan (already mentioned) but instead of folding it cut the upper rim off and form fit into empty soap dish, then cut off upper excess. I have found this aluminum cup to be a little flimsy so I reienforced it with shiny metal muffler tape to strengthen. Load the other PSK items into this inner cup.

Silence the rattling in the soap dish using cotton balls with some Polysporin added, good for cuts/scrapes and fire lighting.

Add a short piece of pencil lead, to write on inner IMP boxes to pass time, graphite may be used as lubricant for multitool.

Add bug dope (late spring in Alberta, they will be BAD), I use the OFF Deep Woods towelettes but I do not think one would last for 3 days. Better would be a very small vial of the old 100% DEET, careful that stuff will disolve plastic, as I found out in the glovebox of my old truck.

Magnetize the sewing needle and indicate the north-end, maybe add a second smaller needle.

If there is any sliver of space left in the container fill it with tough thin cord like 50lb Spectra fishing line.

It may be possible to sew extra thin line into your uniform clothing, it would beef-up the seams and be available as cordage if needed. Could maybe do the same with thin stainless steel wire (trolling wire) added to shirt cuffs/collar and trouser waist?

I do not know if this all would fit in a soap dish, do you have the size specs on this container available?

The knife is a tough decision, I like the looks/reviews of the Gerber LMF II but have never handled one (I have a hard time warming up to the serrations).

I searched the web for a 5"-6" single cutting edge, full tang, straight profile, carbon steel, scandi-grind, tactical knife with a decent sheath but could not find one?

Just my opinions FWIW.

OK now I am tired, Good Night folks,


#122918 - 02/07/08 02:26 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: SwampDonkey]
Taurus Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 458
Loc: Northern Canada
Leigh_Ratcliffe Ė Donít take what I said the wrong way, I wasnít knocking your idea with the bug repellent, itís just that our issued stuff (a cream almost like sun screen) does have a slight smell to it. Itís not as bad as civilian stuff smell wise, but I donít want to underestimate the smelling power of a dog. It has such a high DEET content that it is unavailable to civvies. The only way to get it is to know a guy on the inside. I love the Kukri knives but if I can only have one I like one which can handle smaller tasks (which the Kukri lacks). I find the kukri a bit too big for my tastes while on duty (but thatís just my preference) I am sure if push comes to shove like a situ you are describing my LMF II will be an adequate throat cutter. smirk

Swampdonkey - Sorry to have ruined your sleep but I have been awake as well trying to figure out the best way to teach this to others. If this 3 day ex goes ahead it is quite possible that the 10 day advanced course will been on the horizon. I have been told that I may be an instructor on that one too. You have some well thought ideas there dude!! I learned a lot by taking the stuff I did as a student. The only way to learn a lesson sometimes is the hard way and training exercises are the best place to do it, as you dont want to make these mistakes when the s*** is real. through my time in the Army and while hunting and hiking etc in civi land I have made enough and learnrd enough by them that I hope I can teach these new guys something usefull. You should seek out your nearest recruiting center SWAMPDONKEY, the Army needs guys like you overseas right now. smile

#122923 - 02/07/08 03:14 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
I am simply not in Taurus' league when it comes to acutally trying things. So I am not about to put things in or out of his kit. Although, I might want a few more fishing hooks, very small ones, as I know you can catch birds and other animals and not just fish.

However, my thoughts revolve solely around impproving that cup made from aluminum foil. I think a foldable piece of studier aluminum might take up a whole lot of room in that soap dish, and therefore not be a good alternative. Would some small pieces of something like coat hanger be enough to create a frame, so your cup did not fall to pieces?

#122925 - 02/07/08 03:20 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Dan_McI]

I'd love to try and cram an Orikaso folding mug into said soap dish. I've used the Orikaso stuff in the past but never the mug so I'm not sure how much surface area it needs when flat.

Or you could always slip it in flat next to your water bladder...even though that sort of goes outside the bounds of the exercise rules.

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