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#122759 - 02/06/08 02:42 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
MDinana Offline

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2186
Loc: Bluegrass
I gotta say Taurus, I can cram quite a bit into an Altoid tin, like AFLM.

If your soap dish is what I think, you should be able to get a BUNCH in. You never specified that the soap dish had to fit all the way closed, right? So... cram it full, and use the tape to keep the top and bottom from falling apart. You should theoretically have close to 2" of height, and still just have the barest of overlap between the 2 halves. it's only cheating if it's against the rules, AND you get caught!!!

Now, if you want, I can try and unpack my PSK and show you how crammed it is. Might be ugly getting it back together though!

#122763 - 02/06/08 03:17 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
frediver Offline

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 213
Loc: N.Cal.
Sorry I did not notice the CA. location.
The US casualty blanket is just like a HD space blanket w/4 grommets, wt. 11oz. color silver/od.
Are the matches dependable enough to keep when you still have a spark lite?
A turkey bag is very strong but open ended. I do not see that as a problem if you have string, no need to tie a knot in the bag.
I would still drop the jetscream and switch it out for a flat whistle.
Do you have any provision for a signal mirror? There are several types of flat mylar mirrors that could work and be cut to size for your kit.

Edited by frediver (02/06/08 03:18 AM)

#122765 - 02/06/08 03:36 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Hi Taurus,

Darn, looks like the Ipod Nano is going to have to go and be replaced with an Ipod Shuffle instead wink

There are some little tricks to maximise space, all the meds can fit into aluminium whistle then sealed with cling film for example.

The whistle form factor is a lot easier to accommodate than the conventional plastic types.

The bulkiest item would be the 10m of Flexifoil Hydroline, but this can be wrapped around the container.

The main problem if using a plastic soap container rather than the BCB mini mess tin would be the problem of boiling water, rather than use aluminium foil these aluminium foil pots could be used instead if packed carefully.


#122767 - 02/06/08 03:43 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]

Mini-Bic Lighter,
3 Water pills (the new ones),
10 feet snare wire,
All the chocolate that will fit!

#122777 - 02/06/08 05:05 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: ]
Taurus Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 457
Loc: Northern Canada
Ha ! Awesome replies folks. It’s definitely getting me thinking for sure. What I packed when I did this training worked but that doesn’t mean it can’t be better.

MDinana- I tried to cheat when I did it but it was futile. They caught me and made sure the dish closed completely. Likewise, I will make my students do the same.(just because) A certain element of the training is to make it a little uncomfortable. Three days doesn’t sound like a long time but once you try it trust me. The seconds tick by VERY slow. The Bas****s take your watch away just to make it all the more agonizing.

frediver - I kept the matches simply out of habit. I would have been fine without them. Since it was a tactical survival exercise fire was tricky as if you were seen by the staff you would fail. I made a Dakota fire pit on the second night to warm my hands a bit, roast some crab apples I managed to scrounge and boil a bit of water with raspberries in it. I ended up having to bury the fire after about an hour because the smoke was too hard to control.
The jet scream is an awesome whistle but I know there are lighter ones that will do the trick. The jetscream was free and that’s the only reason I carry them now.

The sunnto compass has a real glass mirror about the size of a credit card built in as a sighting mirror.

Am_Fear_Liath_Mor - Thats a real neat trick with the meds in the whistle thing. I don’t know how it would work in the ones I carry. I would hate for something to get stuck in there when I needed it most. For the purpose of this training, everything had to be INSIDE the case. (The Army’s way of sticking it to you on training) I made a small cup out of the tin foil I was carrying and crafted a crude handle out of grass. half way through my tea the foil let go and I got a lap full of scalding raspberry juice. eek The flies ant ants were an absolute NIGHTMARE after that. Lesson painfully learned on the foil cup thing.

The purpose of being so strict on the dish thing was only to instill a great sense of planning in the decision making process. When you know that all you get for 3 days is what you can fit in such a small space you choose VERY carefully. When you train to survive with very little the theory is that you will do even better with more. The Army mentality is to have enough to last 3 days as help should have found you by then. I am not saying I totally agree with this, But that is how the training is usually geared. I got a few funny looks when I was stuffing the survival sheet in the dish as it took 80% of the space, but I had a dry, semi-warm camp while others were freezing and wet. Likewise one guy took a small bug repellant wipe and I didn’t and I regretted that for the whole dammed three days.

On a funny note though, One dude took only a mini-BIC and a pack of crushed smokes. He was so weak/cold and tired after the three days he took a whole week to recover from it but he still made it when other guys didn't.

Just for everyone’s info, the exercise instills a very good idea in your mind about what you need and what you don’t.

This is what I have in my Military survival kit now.
• Starflash mirror
• Jetscream whistle
• Double headed nails x 2
• Mini-roll of mil spec OD tripwire
• Spark-lite with 6 tinder
• Wetfire tinder x 1
• 12 feet of Para-cord
• Mini-BIC
• 6 Mariner matches w/ striker
• Button compass
• Mini-hack saw blade
• 4 large safety pins
• Mini-fishing kit
• Mini spool of mil spec super thread
• Large needle
• Mini roll of GUN tape, approx 15 feet
• Survival sheet
• Scalpel blade
• Large zip lock bag
• 20 micro-pur(MP1) tabs
• Star nav/ground air signal reference card.
As space is EXTREAMLY limited in my TAC vest this is all I can afford space and weight wise. I am comfortable with it though. It will not fit in a soap dish but it will fit in a cargo pocket of my Combat pants or a pouch in my TAC(usually carried in the pouch with the trauma gear) I then have a few backups in my ruck sac.

Once again, thanks for all the constructive input.

#122779 - 02/06/08 05:38 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
KevinB Offline

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 91
I don't have any suggestions. Sounds like you've put a lot of thought into it and have all the bases covered.

One question, though. You've mentioned double headed nails a couple of times. That's pretty specific. What use do you put the nails to, and why double headed? Just curious.

Kevin B.

#122782 - 02/06/08 06:55 AM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
Paul810 Offline

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
Wait, so you're telling me I get a multi-tool, a knife, a flashlight, a water container, food, a gun, signal flares, a compass, a first aid kit....AND a PSK? shocked

That's not survival, that's better living than some hotels I've stayed in. wink

Seriously though, looking through the list of what you get, it seems like the largest things missing are:

=A way to make fire (other than the flares and the matches in the IMP)
=A simple way to purify and possibly boil water
=Some kind of shelter (or at least something dry to sit/lay on)
=A way to procure certain foods, like fish or small animals (Though you have the gun, I'm guessing you can't use it without being discovered).

So with that in the back of my mind, I would pack the following (I'm guessing on the size requirement since I don't have a soap dish here):

-A ziplock freezer bag or two (I like to put most of my PSK contents in one of these, as it makes it easier to go through them without dropping stuff)
-A mini-bic
-A slightly shaved down BSA hotspark (ferro-rod)
-Some form of tinder (I usually use cotton balls mixed with a little petroleum jelly)
-At least 10 Micro-pur MP-1 tabs
-A big sheet of heavy duty foil folded up
-A large garbage bag
-A few feet of paracord
-A spool of braided spiderwire (maybe wrap it around something to save space)
-A few small fish hooks
-A few large safety pins (if they aren't in the first aid kit)
-Two heavy duty sewing needles
-A few long screw-eye hooks (good for tying cord or snares to trees without wasting a lot)
-Small roll of snare/trip wire
-A scalpel or exacto blade
-Possibly a simple squeeze light (Photon)
-Possibly a small whistle

Whatever room I had left (if any) would be taken up by hard candy, bouillon cubes/packets, little powdered drink mix packets, peanut packets, or whatever other food stuffs I could cram in.

As for the knife I think I would choose an Ontario Rat-7. The sheath of that knife has a little pocket, in which I would stick a folding DMT diamond stone if allowed.

With that said, this is difficult to do without the items in front of me. I would also prepare ahead of time by trying out my gear and kit to see what I was deficient in. Even if there are more rules, as to how I can use my gear once I get there, it's better than going in completely blind, even if it is just training.

On a final note, what model SOG is issued? I'm guessing a PowerLock?

#122786 - 02/06/08 12:19 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
Andy Offline

Registered: 09/13/07
Posts: 378
Loc: SE PA
For those of you who get the Discovery Channel's Military Channel they've been running a 2 hour documentary about a US Marine cold weather survival training course. Here's a link to a schedule of showings for part 1. They use a scenario similar to the one being proposed for Taurus's training, only with a twist at the end.

Don't know if it's available on the web or on DVD.
In a crisis one does not rise to one's level of expectations but rather falls to one's level of training.

#122787 - 02/06/08 12:35 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Paul810]
benjammin Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Use 80lb dacron line instead of the sewing thread. You will get a lot more use out of it, and it won't take up any more space for about the same length.

Switch out to the fox micro whistle. Just as loud, but quite a bit smaller.

If I were sitting in camp with no food and nothing else to do and in a combat location, I would get busy making weapons/booby traps/alerting devices etc. You should give added credit to any student so inclined, allowing they are not giving away their location in so doing.
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

#122795 - 02/06/08 02:38 PM Re: What would YOU bring ? [Re: Taurus]
Blast Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3561
Loc: Spring, Texas
I made a small cup out of the tin foil I was carrying and crafted a crude handle out of grass. half way through my tea the foil let go and I got a lap full of scalding raspberry juice.

That's why I never bother with aluminum. It's just not up to the job of replacing a real metal cup/pot (just ask CANOEDOGS grin)

The comment about bugs has made me re-evaluate my wilderness survival kit. It doesn't have anything to keep the insects away, though I do coat my clothes with a permethian (spelling) spray that is supposed to repel bugs for up to two weeks. I might try and squeeze a small vial of 100% DEET into my kit or maybe a headnet. The headnet would have the dual-purpose of being a fish net...

As for them taking your watches, would making a sundial help any?

So Taurus, when are you going to set up a survival weekend for fellow ETSers? grin It'd be fun to see how we all make out.

Hmmm, that's not such a bad idea. I'd be willing to try and set up a Texas survival test weekend if there's enough interest.


Edited by Blast (02/06/08 02:38 PM)
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