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#121474 - 01/25/08 10:29 PM Re: Too much stuff? Do I have the ultralight-itis? [Re: ]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
Hi Hacksaw,

Reading your post and the replies is just like looking in the mirror for me, I think we all suffer from "Gearitis" but actually want to be as unencumbered in the field as possible.

I have seen many of your gear lists and if you do succumb to the ultralight bug feel free to PM me, as I am sure I can help you lighten your load.

You are just going through a phase; go browse through the MEC catalog and it will pass.

Mike

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#121486 - 01/26/08 12:56 AM Re: Too much stuff? Do I have the ultralight-itis? [Re: ]
jaywalke Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/07
Posts: 172
Loc: Appalachian mountains
I have 5 or 6 of everything but I find myself using the same items over and over. A lot of my excess gear is now finding permanent homes in car kits, BOB, etc., or going to live with friends who need it.

When I saw your big list I thought: he's got four cups. I stopped counting at four knives, but I like knives so I was willing to let them slide. Four cups . . . the mind boggles. What I am saying is that there were redundancies in items that may not be critical to mission success. I can see a spare blade (although that could be a scalpel in a PSK), and three methods of lighting a fire, but two stoves? Fire is my stove back-up.

Pack up all the things you think are nice to have. Then go for a ten-hour hike with a few thousand feet (or meters!) of ups and downs. If you can find a rocky trail with lots of bugs and do all this during a torrential rainstorm, you will add fine nuances to your experience. At the end of your hike, look at the extras and ask if they are still worth it. Some will be. Even when I get my base load down in the 10-15 pound range I always have a book to read and usually a little fine bourbon.

Have fun. I occasionally pack up loads even when I'm not going anywhere, and LS isn't talking dirty when she tells people I am in the basement "playing with my gear."



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#121496 - 01/26/08 01:57 AM Re: Too much stuff? Do I have the ultralight-itis? [Re: jaywalke]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: jaywalke
I have 5 or 6 of everything but I find myself using the same items over and over. A lot of my excess gear is now finding permanent homes in car kits, BOB, etc., or going to live with friends who need it.

When I saw your big list I thought: he's got four cups. I stopped counting at four knives, but I like knives so I was willing to let them slide. Four cups . . . the mind boggles. What I am saying is that there were redundancies in items that may not be critical to mission success. I can see a spare blade (although that could be a scalpel in a PSK), and three methods of lighting a fire, but two stoves? Fire is my stove back-up.

Pack up all the things you think are nice to have. Then go for a ten-hour hike with a few thousand feet (or meters!) of ups and downs. If you can find a rocky trail with lots of bugs and do all this during a torrential rainstorm, you will add fine nuances to your experience. At the end of your hike, look at the extras and ask if they are still worth it. Some will be. Even when I get my base load down in the 10-15 pound range I always have a book to read and usually a little fine bourbon.

Have fun. I occasionally pack up loads even when I'm not going anywhere, and LS isn't talking dirty when she tells people I am in the basement "playing with my gear."




That's exactly it. I don't need all those things...I just want to always have them near me. It's a problem in more ways than one.

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#121504 - 01/26/08 03:43 AM Re: Too much stuff? Do I have the ultralight-itis? [Re: ]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3077
Hi Hacksaw,

It can be difficult getting the right balance between what would be called essential items and what would be nice to carry for additional comfort in a survival situation. An example would a piece of kit such as the tent. Now many would consider this piece of kit to be in the 'Camping' arena and not strictly a 'Survival' piece of kit. This could be because the military don't generally issue tents as a piece of survival gear. But then when have the military ever known anything about camping and being comfortable at the same time. Being comfortable is also essential in a survival situation, something that military survival courses don't really want to acknowledge. The military top brass then wonder why so many of their troops are suffering cold weather injuries during combat operations.

I guess it all depends on the weather conditions and terrain you are expecting to encounter when deciding to include a tent in a Survival kit or BOB. For Example, in a survival situation is it more prudent to carry an additional couple of pounds over the distances you are expecting to cover or expending a great deal of time and energy creating a A frame shelter every evening (if of course the materials are even available). There is nothing wrong at all by including a good tent, stove and sleeping bag system in your pack despite what other survival experts say in their publications. I think you're on the right road with your list, all that is required is to reduce the duplication to reduce the weight of your pack. This will happen naturally when you become confident that your primary individual kit items begin to display reliability out in the wilderness and a fall back kit item isn't required for the insurance or the peace of mind.

Here is a list of my winter kit list (just under 40lbs being useful down to about -10C for 3-4 days)




Outdoor Trekking List for 3-4-Season

Carrying System
Rucksack Lowe Alpine Contour Crossbow 50 1400 3 5/16
Rucksack Water System Platipus 1.8 110 4/16
Total 1510 3 5/16
Tent System
Tent Lightwave ZR0 Cylq with Scandium Poles 1300 2 14/16
Misc Items Alpkit Trekking Poles 300 11/16
Total 1600 3 8/16

Sleeping System
Sleeping Bag Alpkit 200 combined with the Alpkit Phantom 450 1
Sleeping Mat Exped Downmat 9 Air Mattress 1090 2 6/16
Sleeping Bag Liner LiveVenture Silk 120 4/16
Pillow Thermarest pillow/stuff sac 50 2/16
Bivi Bag NA 0 0
Total 1710 3 12/16

Cooking System and Water Purifying System
Stove Optimus Crux 90 3/16
Fuel Bottle / Misc Adaptors NA 0 0
Cooking Pot Alpkit Mytimug 127 4/16
Fry Pan NA 0 0
Kettle Primus Tea/Coffee Kettle 160 6/16
Double Walled Mug Double Walled Ti Mug 450ml Snow Peak 116 4/16
Water Bottle / Carrier Sigg Aluminium 1 litre + Insulated Cover 160 6/16
Thermal Flask Thermos 500ml 300 11/16
Misc Items 1 Firesteel + Waterproof matches + Emergency Esbit Tabs + Tinder + Silva Lighter 80 3/16
Knife Helle Odel 124 4/16
Fork Spoon Folding titanium Spork + Wooden Spoon with shortened handle 50 2/16
Windshield Aluminium Folded 60 2/16
Water Treatment Steripen with 4 lithium AA cells 200 7/16
Total 1467 3 4/16


Clothing System
Waterproof Shell
WS Jacket Berghaus Goretex XCR 800 1 12/16
WS Overtrousers Sprayway Hydrolite Over Trousers 280 10/16
WS Hat Berghaus Goretex XCR + Fleecy Liner 90 3/16
WS Gaiters Goretex 250 9/16
WS Socks Gore Bikeware Goretex 80 3/16
WS Gloves Outdoor Design Winterflex Guide Gloves 200 7/16
1700 3 12/16
Thermal Clothing Layering System Dry Change
Thermal Layer 0 0
Thermal Jacket (Soft Shell) Marmot Windstopper 1/2 Zip pullover 430 15/16
Thermal Base Layer Howies Merino Wool Long John 120 4/16
Thermal Gloves Wollen Mits 120 4/16
Socks Dry Change Woolen/Silk Socks Thurlo 100 4/16
Thermal Hat Dry Change Outdoor Designs Windstopper 50 2/16
Thermal Down Jacket Dry Change Alpkit Fantom 800 1 12/16
Trousers Dry Change Columbia Sportsware OmniDry 220 8/16
Teeshirt Dry Change Howick Luxury Blend Crew Neck Jumper (70% Merino Wool/30% Silk) 200 7/16
Dry Sack for Dry Change Outdoor Designs Medium 80 3/16
2120 4 11/16
Clothing Total 3820 8 7/16

Lighting System
Head Torch 0 0
General Purpose Torch Fenix L2D White Cree 3Watt LED + Head Band with 2 Lithium AA Cells + Diffuser 125 4/16
Spare Batteries NA 0 0
Solar Charger NA 0 0
Battery Charger NA 0 0
Total 125 4/16

Navigation
Compass Silva Ranger 3 + Spare Button Compass kept in survival case 40 1/16
Small Notepad Write in Rain 50 2/16
Pen Fisher Space Pen 50 2/16
Map OS map of Area 75 3/16
Map Case Ortlieb Waterproof 100 4/16
Total 315 11/16

Personal Hygeine Kit
Toothbrush + Toothpaste + Washcloth
Soap and Lightweight Towel and shaving kit. 175 6/16

First Aid Kit
LifeVenture + Additional Items 200 7/16

Additional Items
Camera Lightweight Digital 10.2MP with Lifeventure Case 180 6/16
Sunglasses and Case Bolle with Berghaus case 100 4/16
Mobile Phone Seimens A65 80 3/16
GPS Garmin Etrex Camo 200 7/16
Multitool Leatherman Charge Ti 260 9/16
Total 820

Consumables Number of Days 3

Rations 900 gms / Day 900 2
Total Food 2700 5 15/16
Fuel IsoButane/Propane Gas Cartridge 450 gms 645 1 7/16
Water 1.8 Litres 1800 3 15/16


Total Weight (kg) 17.147

Total Weight (Ibs) 37.72 37 12/16



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (01/26/08 03:44 AM)

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#121523 - 01/26/08 04:27 PM Re: Too much stuff? Do I have the ultralight-itis? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2184
Loc: Deep south... Carolina
Originally Posted By: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor
Hi Hacksaw,


Total Weight (kg) 17.147

Total Weight (Ibs) 37.72 37 12/16



OK, this was too long to quote in entirety, but NICE list! Thanks. Where are you living that you've got this list? Since I'm kind of recent to Michigan (with limited winter camping), I might be stealing this list and holding my supplies to it. Thanks! It looks pretty similar to most of what I have, but def. some weather-specific stuff.

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#121568 - 01/27/08 02:23 AM Re: Too much stuff? Do I have the ultralight-itis? [Re: ]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Don't think about it. Pack what you know you NEED, put that in part of your kit. Put the stuff you will REALLY WANT or provides you with a safety margin on what you need. Can you put these two parts of your kit together and still have it be manageable?

Add a little bit of last ditch stuff in a pocket.

Take it for a test drive.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#121733 - 01/28/08 03:07 PM Re: Too much stuff? Do I have the ultralight-itis? [Re: ironraven]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yep, the zen moment for me usually comes after I assess my needs beforehand, then go through boxes and bags of gear looking for those things which I feel will be of the greatest benefit if TSHTF in the particular situation. It is really just tailoring my EDC to what is anticipated. The further I get away from my civilized routine, the more likely I am to have to depend on more stuff, and to adapt to new conditions.

My normal routine has me travelling in very familiar surroundings, with a low expectation of risk, and a vast knowledge of the items of opportunity available to me and the possible conditions I would face should something go wrong and I have to switch to survival mode. As I move away from my routine, I have to re-evaluate my needs and re-equip/re-orient myself to capitalize on different sets of opportunities. Logic dictates that I cannot equip and prepare for every and any conceivable outcome, but I can, with a set minimum of preparation, be ready to face all but the absolute worst possibilities with reasonable assurance of being able to react positively.

Practice using the tools and supplies you value, then learn to do it with less, or to adapt elements from the environment to meet the same need, even if will not be as efficient. Knowing what needs to be done, then doing it, then doing it under less ideal conditions is how you get good at surviving.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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