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#114389 - 12/01/07 12:28 PM Re: Replace a $1000 BOB with $30 [Re: JustinC]
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
www.donrearic.com offers a bit of info about improvised weapons. His website as a whole is a pretty interesting read. This article in particular offers some quick examples that apply to your situation:

http://www.donrearic.com/defendingyourselfinbritain.html

Search around the whole sit though, you might get some more ideas.

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#114390 - 12/01/07 12:42 PM Re: Replace a $1000 BOB with $30 [Re: Paul810]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


What a horribly put together site. I couldn't stay longer than 3 minutes.

My personal opinion is that keys on a lanyard just won't do enough damage...plus I risk losing my keys. I guess if I had nothing else I might do it for the reach advantage but 'rope' style weapons are more a liability unless you're properly trained to use such a thing. And as you said they're under rated so the intimidation factor is zero.

The best way to win a fight is to not get into one. I've trained in Kung Fu for years and I haven't been in a fight since grade school.

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#114392 - 12/01/07 01:09 PM Re: Replace a $1000 BOB with $30 [Re: ]
JustinC Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 48
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Hacksaw
What a horribly put together site. I couldn't stay longer than 3 minutes.

My personal opinion is that keys on a lanyard just won't do enough damage...plus I risk losing my keys. I guess if I had nothing else I might do it for the reach advantage but 'rope' style weapons are more a liability unless you're properly trained to use such a thing. And as you said they're under rated so the intimidation factor is zero.

The best way to win a fight is to not get into one. I've trained in Kung Fu for years and I haven't been in a fight since grade school.


Sure the best way to win a fight is to never get into it, but it does happen. To ignore the possibility (as many in our society do) would be folly.

I fail to see how rope-type weapons are a liability - especially when compared to the always available alternative of nothing. I don't know how much damage keys would do real-world, but I certainly don't want to take a wad of keys to the face or neck.

I agree that some training would make this much more effective, but what is that not true about? Knives? Guns? Fists? The most effective defensive arm in the world would be poorly employed (and possibly become a danger to the user) if its operation is not understood and mastered.

Nor do I put much stock in "intimidation factor". I think few folks would be intimidated by my appearance. I'm a small guy (5'9", 150), don't act aggressively, and I have talked myself out of many more fights than I've ever been in. However, this is actually an advantage at times. I'm no bad***, but one may be surprised if he tried to take my proverbial lunch money (USMC L.I.N.E. instructor, USMC Close Combat Instructor, USMC Martial Arts Instructor). Surprise is a good thing.

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#114394 - 12/01/07 01:52 PM Re: Replace a $1000 BOB with $30 [Re: JustinC]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


The liability I'm referring to is when you swing and miss and the keys come back at you. Swinging a weight on the end of a rope is a weapon that's been around since the Chinese started using so called 'peasant weapons'...likely earlier than that in fact. I've tried training with a rope dagger and when you screw up you're in trouble...and that's where the training comes in. The same risks are present if you had a roll of quarters in a tube sock...just not as sharp. smile

You're 100% right about the knife too...without training it's a far less effective weapon and can be a liability as well. I've never trained to fight with a knife. The closest thing I've ever used in my Kung Fu experience is a Butterfly sword which is akin to a meat cleaver (another peasant weapon). That being said I'd likely still reach for my pocket knife if I thought my life were in danger.


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#114402 - 12/01/07 03:12 PM Re: Replace a $1000 BOB with $30 [Re: ]
JustinC Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 48
Loc: New England
Additionally (I thought about it a bit more), this is not my preferred weapon, nor am I saying you shouldn't be open to other options. Just as many of us carry matches, and a lighter, a magnesium block, and a Sparklite, you should prepare yourself with a similar array of self defense options - not rely solely on one that, while effective, may not be available to you at all times. If the opportunity to talk my way out presents itself, or I can avoid the situation altogether, that will be the ideal course of action. If I can legally pack something more effective (my EDC handgun or an ASP, for example) I will do so, and that will be the "go-to" weapon. If I can quickly and safely pick up a better improvised weapon, I will do so.

But if faced with the option of throwing my book/Nalgene/carry-on bag and hoping to hit something soft, or standing and fighting with something I'm familiar and confident with, even if it is not the 'best' tool, the choice is obvious. This is just one more option available to me. With life and limb on the line, losing my keys would be of little concern to me - I can get new ones.

I'm certainly open to suggestion. If there is something else available that I already carry everyday and is legal and low-vis just about everywhere, by all means, educate me (I'm not being smart-alecky here - if you know of something better, I'd like to know it, too).

A quick note on knife fighting: I've undergone some "knife-fighting" training. There is no such thing as a one-on-one knife fight. Sure there is the old maxim "if you are in a knife fight, you will get cut", but I've seen the effects of a small knife on flesh, and I'd have to be absolutely desperate to stay in a fight should a knife present itself against me. It doesn't take much at all to cripple someone with a knife, and I'm not willing to "take that cut". If I had a weapon that extended my range, then it might be a different story. The knife fighting community refers to the "Mexican sacrificial limb" - so named for the country of its origin. The foward hand is presented as a target, to draw your opponent in. Many arms have been rendered useless for life using this technique, often from a single strike. Knives are extremely nasty weapons, and I would gladly turn tail and run from an assailant with a knife if the only option was going mano y mano.

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#114541 - 12/02/07 07:47 PM Re: Replace a $1000 BOB with $30 [Re: JustinC]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
Wear a belt with a substantial buckle on it. Something like those woks that those rodeo guys wear. Flailing that thing around may be just enough of a deterrent. Just make sure your drawers don't fall down when you take it off.
_________________________
"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#117698 - 12/27/07 06:59 PM Re: Replace a $1000 BOB with $30 [Re: MoBOB]
yeti Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 203
Loc: somewhere out there...
<GASP>

I use the biggest LL Bean daypack/bookpacks as BOBs, FAKs, etc. They blend in easily in most uses, they're fairly rugged (I've been beating them for years), and don't cost as much as decent replacements. For the mil-look crowd, you won't like them. But they do blend in well...as do most bookpacks. But most bookpacks aren't made very well. Bookpacks have the advantage over most daypacks in that they do have some attention to accessory pockets and sleeves. They don't act like your molle gear though.
_________________________
...got YAK???

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#117706 - 12/27/07 07:50 PM Re: Replace a $1000 BOB with $30 [Re: yeti]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Makeshift defensive weapons? Hmm, a scarf is a well known defensive weapon, especially if loaded with a small pocket of sand on the end(s).

Glass or plastic of suitable thickness can be used as an effective slashing/stabbing implement. There are also pens specifically made for self defense that are functional as pens.

Think outside of the box, and do a little market research, you will find a plethora of useful and relatively unrestricted items.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#117991 - 12/29/07 04:46 PM Re: Replace a $1000 BOB with $30 [Re: benjammin]
Omega Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/10/03
Posts: 77
I am now in Brazil. Usually I carry quite a few things with me when I am abroad - rucksack, water, videocamera, photocamera, suncream, etc, - but my wife suggested to carry as little as possible and definitely no rucksacks because mainly tourists use them: I wear local cloths (I bought it here, it is better in quality and price than one you can find in Europe), no bags (unless it is supermarket bag) and this is the best way not to stand out and reduce interest of thieves because I have not many things to attrack their attention. It works so far and comfortable - you can always buy water and carry a bottle, it does not attrack attention, other things are not that important to have with me all the time as I thought before.
Nevertheless, when I lived in Hungary 11 years ago, I was attacked a few times by local Nazis. Since that time I usually carry a knife just in case but during one attack I simply forgot about my knife on my belt... So, weapons do not always work.
Sprays and other weapons are illegal in many countries. But since I left Hungary I was never attacked though I travelled 20+ countries since that time (I prefer travelling to third world countries because everything is cheap there and it is out of the beaten track).

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#118005 - 12/29/07 06:46 PM Re: Replace a $1000 BOB with $30 [Re: survivalperson]
Jackpine_Savage Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 08/02/05
Posts: 73
Loc: Minnesota
A cane makes an awesome self defense weapon, as well as it's intended use as a mobility aid. It works as camoflage to make you appear less threatening (especially to the federales) and can also be used to carry additional gear if needed.

Canes are allowed on all airplanes, as long as they are just canes and not sword canes. A cane can give reach to keep a knife fighter at bay, especially when used two handed to block and poke. Lastly canes can be had for well under $20 at any drug, or big box store.

Take Care and Stay Safe.
_________________________
It's a Jungle out there.

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