Since you've posted with flint and steel info before...<br>With respect to rocks for fire starting, is a suitable steel always necessary? I was out backpacking last weekend and discovered some really cool rocks (found out later it was quartzite). They spark readilly when struck together, and I thought I'd found a completely natural firestarter. I tried all kinds of tinder from dryer lint to thistle down which ignites instantly from the sparks of the metal flint on my magnesium firestarter. Nothing! I'm concluding that the spark produced is not hot enough to ignite anything. I haven't tried an appropriate steel with the rocks as I was hoping I wouldn't need one.<br><br>--Mike Briggs<br> Maryland<br><br>

I'm sure Chris will respond, but I'll take a crack at it. I used to do reproduction 18th-Century blacksmithing, including making firesteels, and I've worked with flintlocks quite a bit.<br><br>Iron pyrites (fool's gold) is useable without a steel-with a lot of practice. There may be other minerals that work as well, but I haven't heard about them.<br><br>The trick here is the length of time that a spark lives. When striking flint against a firesteel, you're actually shaving off microscopic bits of the steel that become white hot from the friction of the strike, and persist for a second or two- that's why, with traditional flint-and-steel, the steel is critical, but the flint less so- you can use obsidion, quartz, even broken glass- anything with a sharp edge that's considerably harder than the steel itself.<br><br>Even so, preparation of the tinder is critical, and most of the people who use flint and steel prepare charcloth, or bracket fungi, or whatever by charring it in high heat with reduced oxygen- this makes a charred substance much more liable to hold and nurture a brief spark that even dryer lint, but it only smoulders, even when blown on- you need another "stage" of tinder to work it into a flame.<br><br>It does take practice. I used to keep in practice by using a flint and steel instead of matches to light the wood stove every time, all winter. There are a lot of folks who are better at it than I am.<br><br>In striking quartz together, I'm not even sure you're getting the same type of spark- instead of superheated microscopic bits, you might actually be generating electrical sparks via the piezo effect that quartz is known for- which would be of such short duration as to make it almost impossible to kindle anything much more solid than a flammable gas or vapor.<br><br>None of this is particularly relevant to using the new "artificial flints", which work on a different principle (shavings of the "flint" ignite instead of the steel), and, especially with magnesium, are much, much less touchy about the tinder. With the "primitive" methods, the steel is important- but as long as it sparks, the tinder is the real key.<br><br>

Thanks PRESUMEDLOST. Good info. <br> I also just now found an article on the Wilderness Way mag. web pages that describe two stone firestarting. They said using two of the same type of stones wouldn't work, and it seems I need a lot more experimentation and practice to cultivate this skill. Atleast now I know it can be done.<br><br>

>>it seems I need a lot more experimentation and practice to cultivate this skill<<<br><br>Is there a reason, other than generalized interest, that you'd want to? I mean, the rocks that work, whatever they are, are not going to be that common, and it's a lot easier to carry around a firesteel than rocks, and certainly much easier to carry something more modern. If you're not going to carry them, then I think I'd focus on learning to use a firedrill instead- the materials are much more common.<br><br>If you do decide to pursue it, I think I'd recommend starting with a real flint and steel, getting that down, and then working on the more difficult task of using two rocks. Decent steels are available from a number of sources (some files work), and I can run you through the steps I use to prepare charcloth, or charred punk, if it helps.<br><br>I have an original antique firesteel in my collection that's just about 2 inches long- far smaller than those typically found in tinderboxes, much less hearth-steels. I sort of imagine it might have been part of someones 18th or 19th century "emergency survival kit".<br><br>

Presumedlost said everything I can, and you found the WW article which I was going to mention. Firemaking with two stones is probably more Hollywood than actual practice. It's known to many peoples, but just like us they have more than one method. Stones are a tough way to go. We think of 'The Stone Age', forgetting that they used many wood animal and vegetable raw materials that have not survived. www.ragweedforge has a good section on firemaking. As an aside, many people have trouble with wet wood using various friction devices. What happens is simple. We use a RPM that initially dries the wood at the friction source. Once dry, we unconsiously continue that RPM which merely abrades the wood away in a fine powder. This is easier to demonstrate than to describe. I managed to ignite truly wet wood ONCE. I was under extreme duress and very focused on the task. I carry a Sparklite, lifeboat matches, safety matches, magnesium bar, metal match and a lighter in my main kit and person! A survival scenario is no time to replicate QUEST FOR FIRE!<br><br>

>>I carry a Sparklite, lifeboat matches, safety matches, magnesium bar, metal match and a lighter in my main kit and person! A survival scenario is no time to replicate QUEST FOR FIRE!<<<br><br>Hear, hear. While I'm grateful for whatever skills I learned in 18th C. camping and reenacting (and they are NOTHING compared to the skills of our ancestors), one thing it really teaches you is to appreciate modern tools.<br><br>I managed to make fire with a drill exactly once, with VERY dry materials, great weather and a great deal of time and effort, so Chris' skill is far beyond mine. I can't even say I'd look forward to doing it again.<br><br>I've always carried at least 2 sources of fire in the woods, even if I'm not planning on being out overnight. When I was a teenager I used to backpack with a metal matchsafe hung around my neck, so there was NO chance of losing it. I recently purchased a Windmill lighter and have taken to carrying it every day, in civilization- and I don't smoke.<br><br>No skill learned is ever wasted, but if my life is really on the line, I'm going to want the most practical solutions, not necessarily the most interesting. Primitive skills are often more about history and learning than survival today.<br><br><br>