it's a fine lighter for what it's made for..lighting
pack after pack of cigarettes or "normal" camping situtions
BUT--if you had a look at my ditch vest post you will see
that i was hankering after a a lighter that would throw a
flame without the lighting lever being held down---
HELLO CANOEDOG--wake up --just Goggle it..in less that a
minute i found the next lighter for the vest--torch lighters
that lock on to hold a steady flame are made in every shape
and size--some are kind of goofy in that "show off at the bar"
pistol lighter cira 1950 kind of way--but some look to be
normal enought to go in a overboard vest and have large
push button strikers and windproof designs..so the Bic's will
go in the shirt pocket to light the stove for dinner and i'll
pop $20 on a torch lighter with a lock-on for the vest...

Torch lighters burn up fuel too fast for my liking.

Every refillable butane lighter I ever sold at REI SUCKED big time.
I sold $19.99, $49, and $99 lighters and they all worked OK until you need to refill them. Not to mention they do not work at altitude at all IME.
I will stay with Bic; I have used them at +14K ft, found them in a puddle and got them working and most of all used them past the point where I could actually see any fuel inside.
Bill

Not only that, but in general I find them to be more fragile than a Bic or zippo. The piezo(?) ignition system they use seems to either go bad or break under hard use.

With that said, Zippo has a version called the "Zippo Blu" that is supposed to be better than the average torch style lighter, but I haven't used one so I can't comment. Also, I believe it still requires the button to be held down (unlike a regular zippo).

With that said, an old fashioned zippo and ferro-rod are my most common fire starting methods, but I also have Bics stashed all over the place. Between the three of them I've never had a problem getting a fire going.

I think I'll keep my Bic's, Zippo's (in Ziplock bags), and matches in a waterproof case. That's in addition to my other fire starting equipment.

I have tried expensive jet-type lighters and torch lighters and found them to be fragile or un-reliable. The other problem is that they run on butane which works poorly in cold weather. At work I often need to thaw-out frozen, shielded padlocks on remote gates to permit access into areas. I have tried torch lighters but found that unless you keep them next to your body they often will not work in the cold. I usually use a propane torch carried in the truck or small chemical handwarmer packs placed around the lock. I also hate misplacing an expensive piece of equipment, which I do frequently with lighters.

I carry numerous Bic's backed up with spark-based fire lighting methods (ferro rod/sparklight).

Comparing simple butane lighters:
Last week I finished reading Cody Lundin's 98.6* in which he preferred the cheap "Cricket" type butane lighter over the Bic. I have tried these types in the past and appreciated the adjustable flame height option, but found the Bic much more durable. What is the opinion on the forum?

I am still looking for the perfect compact, waterproof emergency fire-lighter that CANOEDOGS started out searching for in his original post (e.g. pull the pin, instant 5 minute fire-lighting source).

Mike

A couple of months ago I bought a lighter at Walmart. I don't remember the brand now, but it was at the checkout line. Basically a disposable butane lighter without the typical wheel and small button hold down. Instead, you grip the lighter in your fist and just kind of push your thumb up. The side of the lighter slides up 1/4", clicks, and you've got a flame. It's gross motor skills, so you can do it with cold hands or with gloves on. No fiddling with the little button and cold fingers.

I've been using it for awhile now and I really like it. If you want a lighter for a youngster, it's very easy for them to use it also. For about a dollar and the ease of use, it's a winner.

Hi lukus,

Thanks for the info. do you have a brand name or model of this lighter so I can Google it? It sounds interesting.

Mike

That's nice, but doesn't this lighter have a name/brand? It would help if we knew what specific lighter you're talking about. I don't shop at Walmart.

While I agree with almost everything in Cody's book I do not agree on the cheapo lighters. I have seen the sparking wheel fail with 1/2 the fue left.

If you are looking for "pull the pin, instant 5 minute fire-lighting source" try a road flare.
Bill

I've never tried an expensive butane lighter. I picked up a cheap one (at WalMart) once. A "Ronson". I think somebody here might have recommended the thing, but I can't remember. What a piece of trash. I have about a 2% success rate getting this thing to light INDOORS. I certainly wouldn't ever waste time trying it under adverse conditions. That's trying it with different flame adjustments, butane full, half full, near empty. Push halfway, pause, then strike. One swift motion to start the butane and strike. It's ridiculous. I have refilled the thing twice, and it's currently empty again. I have tried lighting it (emphasis on "tried") less than 100 times, probably closer to 50. And it's out of butane two times already. I guess you get what you pay for. From what others have said in this thread, $50 or $100 may not buy you a whole lot more than my $5 WalMart special (or whatever it's cost was). If butane lighters like this were the only things you could light up with, we'd have a lot less addicted people (unless they just gave up and ATE their cigarettes!)

[edit]
I just found the stupid thing. It's a "Ronson Jet Lite". Now, off to the trash it goes. I don't know why it was still sitting around...
[/edit]

I tried looking on the Walmart website, but apparently small items like that aren't listed. I'll stop at one on my lunch break and see if I can find it.

I don't think I'll replace my bic for everyday use. I keep it in my pocket and have no trouble lighting it up. I always seem to misplace them before they run out of fuel. I've never had one break on me that I wasn't trying to destroy, and even then it took me two tries before it stopped functioning.

In my opinion buying cheap lighters is a waste of time. They burn through the fuel too quickly, their flames are too small, and they are not durable at all.

However, cheap lighters found on the ground are another story. These rusted, abused relics seem nigh indestructible. They function perfectly, with a beautiful flame. I don't know what it is about lighters that have braved the elements and survived, they just seem tougher.

sorry--for a canoe country ditch vest the Bic's are out..
i'm sure i'll find a good torch lighter between now and when
the lakes open in the spring..this lighter would not be a
long term..many use sort of thing..it only has to light ONE
fire..and thats the one i would make ASAP pulling myself out
of the lake and grubbing together a pile of wood and getting
a heat tab into it..the altitude would never be over the
1500 foot level..and all down hill to Hudson's Bay..i would
not expect freezing weather--just wet and cold..i won't be
refilling the lighter--i just want something that i can strike
and get a big flame without holding the lever down so i can
"hose down" a heat tab--candle stub--birch bark--twigs--
whatever and get a fire going..that done i can warm up..
make a hot drink..build a shelter and blow in that whistle
untill help comes..----the chances of this happening are
so remote that i don't even think i would invest in a PLB
unless i was going much farther north..i have no problem
making a fire--see my "one match--wet wood" post..

O.K. I stopped at Walmart. Had to look through several checkout stands before I found it. They are on a card and hanging, but not with the bics, just by themselves.

It is "The Amazing Slide Lighter" by Gibson Enterprises. It is piezo electric and like most butane lighters, you have to shield it from the wind to light it. I haven't had any problems with mine, but now I'm thinking I'm going to stick it in the freezer and dunk it in water to make sure it keeps on going.

A quick google search and this is all I could find:
http://cgi.ebay.com/AMAZING-SLIDE-LIGHTE...1QQcmdZViewItem

The ones I got at Wally mart are single, on a card for $.97 apiece, so probably not worth buying them on the internet if you can help it.

Hi Lukus,

Thanks for the detailed information, I will check out the stock at my local Walmart this afternoon.

Mike

I've got a couple of cheapies in the pack, backed up by matches and a sparklite.

I have one of these for EDC (mostly for curing heat shrink now that I gave up smoking), works better than I expected, lighter and less bulky than a zippo, the candle function is nice too. Austrian Lighter

I'm planning on trying out one of these, the extendable nozzle looks handy Solo Candle Lighter

Re,

C. Rowe

even without fuel, a bic or equivalent, is better than those piezo starters. Why? because the sparks will still light steel wool or charcloth.


Alan



[url=survivalbiz.com]survivalbiz.com[/url]
[url=dirttime.com]dirttime.com[/url]

Important to know how to refill butane lighters.
Purge the remaining fuel/air by depressing the fuel nipple
Fill

As a cigar smoker I've used quite a few butane lighters over the years. I almost always reach for my $3.00 Ronson. I've never had an issue with one and thats after countless refills.

That said, I wouldn't want to rely on any butane lighter in a cold weather survival situation. All the lighters i've used needed to be warmed a bit before using in cold temps. I'll stick to Bics for my preparedness kits.

I use a Ronson JetLite torch/jet style lighter and I love it. I think I paid $9 for it. It's never let me down. I carry it always in the 5th pocket of my jeans...this also keeps the butane warm when I need it in the cold.

In cigar circles the new Zippo jet lighter is really becoming popular both because of the name and quality of the unit itself. I've been tempted to pick one up as my Ronson has seen better days (mostly cosmetic...it still lights like a champ)

For survival use buy a quality windproof lighter. A standard torch/jet lighter can blow out just as easy as a Bic will (my JetLite is supposedly wind resistant but it's really not). I don't know how the Zippo stands up to wind but I'm very curious to find out.

http://www.ronsoncorp.com/jetlite_detail.cfm

I have never had any great problems using a Bic. In the sticks I carry several along with lifeboat matches and a sparking bar. Every day carry I chose a Mini-Bic and have never had an issue. I like the Mini because I don't smoke and seldom need a lighter but like to have one. A small lighter makes the burden acceptable.

The only potential problems with the Mini-Bic is that it is so small if my hands were frozen it might be a problem and it has less fuel. Of course living in Florida frozen hands aren't much of a issue and not smoking I just don't use enough fuel to justify the larger version.

When I do get out into the sticks the full sized Bic might make more sense.

I have seen people use all sorts of lighters with highly spotty results.

I used to carry a Zippo. Worked fine but when I overfilled it it ate the skin on my thigh where the fuel leaked out. A couple of times when I didn't fill it it ran out of fuel. Traditional and 'manly' the Zippo has a lot of cache but it is heavy, bulky and, IMHO, not as reliable as a Bic. If I was a smoker and felt the need to have my machismo reinforced the Zippo would be good around town.

I have seen several fairly expensive refillable butane lighters fail in various ways. Saw a $100 one where the refill valve leaked so that by the third day he was out of fuel even though it was only used a couple of times.

A common observation is that many of the 'windproof' models aren't. And the ones with all the seals aren't all really sealed. At least with a Bic I know if it is not sealed with tape or in a bag I need to get it out and dry it off if I end up in the drink. The ones that look like they are sealed can give you a false sense of security.

marine flares

I agree on the bic too. I find it much more reliable than the jet type. Every jet type lighter I have every bought and tried has failed, from cheap to not cheap.

I have had bics go through the washer & dryer even and work fine after I find it in my pocket. It lost some fuel, probably from getting depressed, but it still lit up first try. I have yet to use up the fuel in a bic or cricket lighter either. I buy half a dozen every other year and rotate out my stock.

Interestingly, I have found the peanut lighter (cheap) to be great at preserving fuel, unlike the zippo which goes dry within two weeks. I have a handful of those scattered around in various kits too. I check them every six months or so and after about a year and a half, I haven't refueled and they still light. I will top off the fuel at the two year mark when I rotate the bics. I also have a nice Dunhill (expensive) and that holds fuel very well too. I haven't refilled it in about four years and it still lights up.

And I second the road flare for emergency, gotta have fire now, backup fire in the pack. I have never needed it here in Hawaii, but it can get cold at night.

Please, take no offense, I mean no disrespect but?


I'm sure our forum friends from up north are just laughing their fannies off at that statement. I guess that on top of the volcanoes it will get cold and all, but really. Reminds me of the time we took the kids to DisneyWorld in FL in February. It was about 55 or 60 degrees, I was wearing short sleeves and the Disney folks were in parkas with earmuffs and gloves. As Einstein said, it's all relative.

If I could spell it I'd wish you Merry Christmas in Hawaiian! (That darn song gets stuck in my mind this time of year)

Andy

Hi CANOEDOGS

The best lighter I've come across is the Brunton FireStorm. It waterproof, windproof and very reliable.




http://www.brunton.com/product.php?id=6

DR has a quick review at
http://www.equipped.org/blog/?p=20

I even prefer it to the Brunton Helios Stormproof lighter.

Mele Kalikimaka!

Mahalo duckear. You beat me to it. Here it is with "and a Happy New Year!"

Mele Kalikimaka me ka Hau'oli Makahiki Hou!

Aloha Andy,

No offense taken. When it gets into the 50's, maybe 60's, it just takes me out of my normal personal and business attire of shorts. Come on, we can't have that!

With some of the inclement weather up north, I bet some of our northern forum brothers and sisters might want to take a visit to Hawaii for the holidays.

As unlikely as it may be, you can get hypothermia in 50-60 degree weather, especially if it is rainy and windy. It's been in the 60's here overnight and the wind has been blustery and it's been raining quite a bit, so it is definitely our winter. I am still in shorts, but feel pretty cool.

I remember quite a number of years ago, I went camping up in the mountains from the North Shore area. I had never camped up there before and I wasn't as prepared as I should have been. During the day it was hot, we hiked and played in the streams, caught prawns, picked fruit; and every night I froze my behind off.

On Oahu, we have gone into the 40's and I believe the record low in Hawaii is 12 degrees (on Mauna Kea). Hawaii is the only state to not have had a 0 degree or colder temperature. But I have frozen my fanny off on top of Haleakala when I went up there to watch the sunrise. And we do have snow and skiing, believe it or not.

But you are right, it is all relative.

Everyone stay safe and keep warm.

Yeah, supposed to get back up to 78 degrees here again today. We got a frost warning the beginning of the week, but it didn't freeze here in Orlando dangit! I had to put on the lightest jacket I could find here for two mornings in a row, but by 10:00 am it was too hot to wear it any longer.

Of course, it is kinda nice to walk out to the back yard and just pick a tangerine or two and start eating them.

It did, however, rain buckets again last night.

I sure am glad I got to go to Denver last week. They had about 4 inches of snow on the south side of town while I was there, with a low of around 12 degrees. Felt so good to be out in it I chapped my lips something fierce. At least I got a taste of it again. Last year this time I flew home from Brisbane to a snow storm in Denver as well. Ended up shoveling the sidewalk in dang near a blizzard. It's a pity the experience doesn't ever last long enough.

OK Benjammin,

It's about 23F here right now, freezing rain coming down, (not sure how that can happen) and there is about 16" of snow on the ground, so come on up. Good news is my new 4x4 is awesome in this stuff.

Blitz

I think it works both ways, I can tolerate the cold pretty well (love or like seem too strong of words), but I'm not a big fan of high heat. Part of that is acclimatization, and part of that is probably mindset, I know plenty of ways to keep warm, getting cool seems alot harder.

I was told in a recent Sierra Club class that lighters with piezo-electric ignition don't work well at altitude.

I couldn't get either of my lighters with piezo-electric ignition to function this past weekend at about 8000'. At the end of the day, I drove back downhill, and they performed just fine.

On the other hand, I've used a Jet Boil with with piezo-electric ignition at 10000' with no difficulty.

Anyone know what gives here?

There was another post about this. It has to do with the ability of a high voltage spark to jump through air. At high altitude there's less air and there needs to be more of a voltage to jump the same size gap.

I'm sure there is an electrical nerd somewhere cringing at that explanation but it's the best I have.

I've been reading a bit more. Apparently I was pretty lucky. The JetBoil's piezo ignition is a bit better than my lighter's but 10K is about the max altitude where piezo ignition can still be used.

Your explanation sounds like it's in the ball park. Others have told me that it's something to do with lack of oxygen at higher altitudes.

Yep. I am. You have the spark jump theory exactly backwards.
Air insulates against spark jump. So at altitude spark will jump a given gap at a lower voltage.

Other choices are: incorrect fuel/air mixture, insufficient ions created in the spark to propagate flame, spark jumping early and not building up a nice fat arc (this is my most likely pick). Might be some other reasons I can't think of at the moment.

Unimogbert

The Bic works just fine for me.

When wet, it lights after shaking off the water (second attempt). It doesn't mind cold or altitude. It can be replaced inexpensively (a buck or so) and easily (at any gas station) when it runs out. Its fuel doesn't escape over time like a Zippo (a 5 year old Bic lit on the first attempt, but my zippo was empty after 2 weeks). It doesn't require regular monitoring or refueling (when it gets close to empty, replace it). It doesn't require special preparation or procedures to light. Because it is small and inexpensive I am more likely to include one in all of my kits and in my pocket.

The Bic M-series lighter cover gets around the issue of triggering the gas while the Bic is in your pocket or your kit. It doesn't add much weight or size to the lighter. It protects the Bic from being damaged by sharp objects or being crushed. It provides a bit of wind protection. And I can buy 10 or more Bic covers with lighters included for the cost of a premium refillable butane lighter.

As a Scouter I enjoy learning about many different fire making methods. I've taught many to my Scouts, and using alternative fire starting methods is a lot of fun. We have also used torch lighters for the Coleman lanterns when we go car camping.

However, there is a much greater chance of success starting a fire with the Bic that I have in my pocket than with the flint and steel kit I left in the car, or the magnifying glass or soda can bottom that would have worked if it had been a sunny day, or the improvised bow drill without a flat dry piece of wood for the base.

You could dump the Bic and count on something larger or more exotic or more primitive. But these options may not be present or functional when you need them.

Or you could carry the Bic to be assured of a flame, and have the other options as a backup.

GAH! I thought I did but it made sense so I ran with it. Now I too wonder why they don't work at high altitudes if it's not that???

Yeah, I think I'd agree with Scoutdoors based on my experience. Looks like Bics are the best option for routine use. Bics don't work well in wind, but I think carrying lifeboat matches as a back up would get you through in windy conditions.

I always carry Tinder Quik and a Spark Lite. I actually used the lighter's piezo coil to light a Tinder Quik and then used the Tinder Quik to light my stove on a recent snow shoe trip at 8000'. The piezo coil was glowing red, but it wouldn't ignite the gas in my lighter. The Tinder Quik was a piece of cake to light using the piezo coil.

I have had nothing but problems with piezoelectric stoves, lighters, you name it. They have the maddening habit of not working right when things HAVE to work. Bics seem to be bombproof.

It was nice to read that others have had good experience with their peanut lighters, but I'm ready to ditch mine from my EDC and get a BIC holder instead. It has failed several times on me in the winter. Luckily, I always have other means.

Red, I think that is why we all have a couple of ways of lighting fire. Anythign that important, you don't leave it to just one method.

This might be overkill, but I usually carry:
-Spark Lite & Tinder Quik.
-2 lighters (henceforth and hereafter, Bic brand)
-Regular every day matches.
-Life boat matches

and sometimes
-Swedish fire steel (Primus brand)

I won't be carrying anything with a piezo ignition system above 7000'.

Countycomm has peanut lighters...

http://www.countycomm.com/peanutlighter.htm
and
http://www.countycomm.com/sslight.htm

The stainless version is fine, but now they need a titanium version

Steve

My wind-resistant, no-hold-the-lever-down, pocket flare--a 40 year old Ronson Varaflame Windlite Atomic:

I just repaired my old Zippo and plan to throw it into the mix. It's certainly more windproof than anything else I currently carry.

If only I could keep it from drying out.

Wow sotto, I'd worry about burning my eyebrows off with that thing!

Sotto--thats more like it--wet,cold and numb with a pile of
whatever you could pull together in a minute,thats what i would
want and not a match--of any kind--or something that was made to light a cigarette--indoors...

Sotto--i was just looking at these on Ebay--i assume fuel
still avalable for an old lighter like this==looks like your
burning up alot in that photo

Canoedogs:

Yup. This is just a refillable butane lighter. When I bought mine, it needed a little seal work, and I found a guy on the Web who works on them (Glendale, CA or North Hollywood as I recall). Shortly, it was back and in this kind of working order. The flame adjustment wheel really works! I haven't burned it this way for more than a few seconds at a stretch, for obvious reasons. Interestingly, the lighter itself doesn't seem to get very warm with the flame adusted this high.

Here's another shot of my Ronson Varaflame Windlite:

Sotto--i just bought one on Ebay--it's going into my overboard
vest--if i ever have to use it i'll get what i've been looking for--a BIG HONKING FLAME--no tiny match or Bic stuff--even if i just get one blast out of it thats all i would
need to get a life saving fire going--great exchange of info
on this site--thanks......now if i can just find empty Spam
cans-------

Canoedogs--you can get nearly all the Spam cans in the known Universe in Hawaii. They even use it for sushi. Good luck with the Windlite; happy to have helped you with what you were looking for.

Dave -

Wonder if it might work to take the smallest-diameter bicycle inner-tube you can find, cut a 1/2- to 1-inch wide cross-section (a mini-ranger band) and slip over the lighter, centered on/around the "joint." Would provide a near-air tight seal = little or no evaporation; ensures top-half doesn't inadvertently pop open in a kit. Rubber doubles as another fire-starting aid.

OK for a kit, cumbersome if you're going to carry/use Zippo throughout the day.

Dan

that's some good thinking Dan!

I happen to have a bicycle inner tube with a puncture here too...definitely going to try that out.

A kit is where I want to put it. I EDC a Ronson JetLite. Not windproof but Zippo's make my cigars taste funny.

Ranger band's won't work. Don't ask me why... I haven't a clue. I've tried every way I can think of to make regular Zippo's "evaporation proof". Even plastidip. No luck. However, I do like these Zippo fuel canisters:
http://www.theconnections.com/product_info.php?products_id=476
I've stored fuel indefinately in them.

I have also tested these "peanut" size flint lighters (Zippo principle):
http://www.countycomm.com/sslight.htm

Mine held enough fluid to light after 6 months hanging on the dash of my car. Even without fuel, the flint will light TinderQuick. I've stashed them all around my gear now.

I've wanted to try the peanut lighters but contycomm only ships by UPS and that's enough for me to never deal with a company when it comes to cross-border shipping. That $9 lighter will be 40 by the time they transport, tax, and brokerage the hell out of it.

Check your PMs for an offer you can't refuse.