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#115668 - 12/12/07 06:56 PM Day three without power in OK
Hghvlocity Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 248
Loc: Oklahoma
Greetings from power deficient Oklahoma. Going on day three after the power went out Monday morning around 7:30 am. Some on my street have power..unsure of the genius that mapped out the neighborhood wiring.

Ok, home with my 10 yr old daughter and 2.5 yr old son. Not the ideal condition when power goes...especially when he was right in the middle of his favorite movie "Cars". Ok, portable DVD fired up movie continuing...10 year old fills bathtub, while the water was still running, I wasn't taking chances. I made sure standard water containers are all full. Out to the wood pile make several trips moving wood to the patio. Start fire in the fireplace...no time for fun and games..light the match, turn on the gas. After 10 minutes, fire is going without gas assistance, kids watching a movie. Lunch was heated up on one of my many camping stoves. Raman for her, some Chef Boyarde for him.

It was interesting to watch it unfold. Wife home from work early..no power at the hospital where she works. She stopped at the grocery store on the way home...hour wait in line. Nothing major, just some convienience items. She asks if she should stop for anything else..I get her home. So I am off to the store. Coweta(rural community just south east of Tulsa) has a Wal-mart and grocery store all closed tight..no power. Rumor of some Ace Hardwares open and selling in the dark, just keeping manual records. Hmmm...maybe I need to frequent the Ace hardware and make some friends. Most Tulsa Wal-marts closed no power. I drove to the one in Wagoner(30 miles away) thought I would grab a couple extra fuel bottles..had several, but you never know. Got the last 6 in the store, but it was surreal. Some Christmas shopping, one aisle over from people frantically gathering up candles for light. Flashlight aisle looked like it had just been erected..no lights to speak of. No lamp oil, lanterns or liquid fuel. Good thing I already had all that stuff.

Dinner quesidillas(sp) on the larger camp stove, refrigirated items on the patio...32 degrees.. wake up often to replenish the fire...gas hot water heater, so hot shower felt good.

Pretty much maintaining here..some items for thought.

The sound of large limbs coming off trees is disconcerting. The amount of wood supply on hand will probably last 5 days. Need more stocks for future. The water station never went offline, however several surrounding communities being asked to conserve water, one community has contaminated water. Interesting that within half a day..no chainsaws or generators to be had. Someone needs to slap the lady on the news (watched from my battery powered b/w) who keeps saying check our website for school closings...3/4 of Tulsa without power not to mention surrounding communities. Food really not that much of an issue. I always thought that would be the largest concern of my family..but really for the 10 year old and 2 year old it seems to be intertainment and with the wife it is really warmth. We ate because we were bored.

Oh well, just like camping in the living room, but my couch is not as comfortable as I thought.


_________________________
Get busy living...or get busy dying!

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#115676 - 12/12/07 07:46 PM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: ]
Lance_952 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/25/06
Posts: 106
We lost power for 16 hours, with in the first 15 minn. My kids were saying that they were bored.
After giving them a list of things that they could do for fun and being told that “all that’s boring” I was relived when I got the call to go out and help remove trees and limbs from the road.

I think that the other guys were grateful for the “child whine” reprieve too, long after we had cleared our township roads we sat in the cold and dark fire station giving our chief hell for not putting in a generator so we could have lights and heat.

I do feel sorry for my parents, they live five miles out of town and was told that it may be 13 days before they get power back. But the roads are clear so they can come here and shower, do laundry, and eat.

On the plus side of the power loss, my wife has agreed that we do need a generator, and it has also got my folks thinking more about being ready for things that my happen.

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#115701 - 12/12/07 11:22 PM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: Hghvlocity]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
Got power back here about three hours ago, lost it Monday morning. Had several hundred year old trees on neighbor's property embed themselves in my garage roof, spent fourteen hours cutting them up and tarping garage. Always thought I was fairly well prepared, did not participate in the mad about town Monday shopping frenzy that left shelves bare.

Still have plenty of food, was running low on propane however--almost lost the parakeet over fuel rationing.

Had hot water the whole time, was a blessing. Still, if the power hadn't been back tonight, DW and DD2 would've been staying at my father in law's (he lives next to a power plant, never a burble in the go juice).

Still, temps in house last night got down below forty deg. farenheit. Natural gas furnace, electric blower with gas safety shutoff.

No generator. Have been trying to convince DW we needed one since the last ice storm, I have a feeling she's ready to listen to me now smile

Future plans for house now include a fireplace or wood-burning stove.

All of the strife in the household would have been eliminated if the girls had let me take them "camping" in the living room rather than trying to pretend the entire house was a viable living space.

Anyhow, on a tip overheard via neighboring cell phone conversation, I managed to restock on propane, which was my only real worry.

Now I need to figure out a way to wash, dry, and iron clothes (I hate ties...dang dress code) the next time this happens smile
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Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

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#115713 - 12/13/07 12:09 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: NeighborBill]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Billy, if you have hot water, fill a couple of lidded jars (quart mayo or canning jars are a good size, and stable) and put them in the parakeet's cage, and cover with a blanket. I put a cheap round thermometer in the chicken's pen when it gets really cold (for here), so I can see how things are going.

This also applies to reptiles and other animals sensitive to cold.

Just a personal opinion: I wouldn't ask permission to close down the outer parts of the house. Just tell them, "Warmth here, freeze there. Your choice."

Sue

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#115716 - 12/13/07 12:19 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: Susan]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
I agree with all. Good tip re hot water jars to serve as radiant heat for small pets. Trying to heat the entire house is foolish, put your heat where it has the best chance of keeping your plumbing from freezing. Tough love rules with folks who don't understand the situation.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#115723 - 12/13/07 12:55 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: Russ]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
I was told once to do the same to heat a small room. Say if you have a gas stove but are without electric, or have an outdoor propane grill. Heat up the biggest pan of water you have with a lid then sit it in the center of a small room and huddle around it.

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#115724 - 12/13/07 01:13 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: Eugene]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Eugene, you can do the same with common red bricks: heat them on the grill outside, put them in a metal bucket with tongs, and bring them inside. Flameless heat that doesn't use interior oxygen.

Sue

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#115751 - 12/13/07 04:33 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: Lance_952]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
How big are your kids? They can help move the tree limbs and keep watch for inbound traffic. smile
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#115773 - 12/13/07 11:15 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: Susan]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
Ended up doing the next best thing--moved parakeet to bathroom after filling tub up with piping hot water.

Good idea about tough love on the heat...was just envisioning wide, thick straps of plastic hanging from the ceiling over the bar to separate the kitchen from the living room, to provide a walk thru weather barrier.

Another project to ponder is prepositioned tarp tie downs in strategic locations (for various aspects of the roof). Also need to figure square footage for such tarps on garage and house.

Have tornado threat to worry about after ice/snow season is over smile

At least I won't have to worry about the trees anymore...
_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

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#115803 - 12/13/07 04:01 PM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: NeighborBill]
Dan_McI Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 844
Loc: NYC
Try to use a some trigonometry before deciding you need to measure the roof. If you know how wide and long the footprint of the house or a part of it is, can estimate the distance the roof rises from the eaves to it's peak, and you can estimate the overhang on the eaves, with the use of trigonometry you can calculate roof area.

For a rectangular structure. The width of the roof can be deterined by knowing the width of the structure and the rise of the roof. Squaring both these numbers, adding them and then finding the square root of the sum would give you that width of the roof. The length of the roof should not change much from the length of the structure, and it should not change over the width of the roof. Multiply by the length by the square root of the sum mentioned, and it should give you the area of the roof. The math is much safer than getting out the ladder.

Not sure if I would buy tarps to cover all of the roof, but how much you want to cover is all up to you.

As far as tie down straps, I might forego them. If I needed to put a tarp in place to cover a hole in the roof, and I was in a hurry, I would probably nail it down.

Good luck with the clean up, etc.


Edited by Dan_McI (12/13/07 04:02 PM)

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#115838 - 12/13/07 11:41 PM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: Dan_McI]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
Wasn't planning on a ladder smile Have complete 3D prints to house.
_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

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#115864 - 12/14/07 02:41 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: NeighborBill]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I wouldn't worry about fixed tie downs on the roof. I would however, have 1x2s or 2x2s to use as anchors around the edge of the tarp- pull the tarp tight under the wood, and go through them both, rather than just tacking the tarps down. The later doesn't work so well...
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#115928 - 12/14/07 08:53 PM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: ironraven]
Hghvlocity Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 248
Loc: Oklahoma
Ok...now Day 5 without power.

Seems that the amount of folks that will be effected by the work effort is the key...again, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few(me).

Last night, I sent the DW and kids to family to sleep in peace and heat. I stayed at the homefront to A) monitor temp to prevent pipes from freezing and B) protect property. Seems that some looting has begun. I am a warm sleeper so I was able to cut down on the amount of wood used in the fire...save it for the future if needed.

Food still not an issue, I have several restuarants open within a mile from my house...unbelievable. Water also not a concern at this point.

What is a concern is with the amount of folks still without power in Tulsa proper, propane, liquid fuel, chainsaws and any parts oil for them is in short supply. Generators are becoming more available and there is even a rumor that FEMA is now involved so we could get a tax deduction if I purchased one...but that would involve using credit and I have one I could borrow if needed. Will probably hook it up tonight just to provide some heat to keep the pipes from the risk of freezing.

Clean up efforts will have to wait until power is back on. This weekend I might start to clear the driveway...if power has been restored. It might sit there till summer(ha). What am I saying, DW will step in and prevent that.

Still maintaining.
_________________________
Get busy living...or get busy dying!

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#115978 - 12/15/07 02:54 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: Hghvlocity]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3223
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Kudos and thanks to everyone who's living through this and has still made the effort to post. Be assured that we are reading the details closely. There is no substitute for "boots on the ice" experience.

A note that may be of use: if there is still water pressure (not clear if that's the case), one way to prevent freezing is to let your taps drip/run slowly. It takes an extra amount of cold to freeze moving water. And a surprising amount of 'free and green' geothermal energy comes up through the water mains.

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#116020 - 12/15/07 03:55 PM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: dougwalkabout]
DFW Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 80
When they start to restore power....

In my town, there were several house fires that began in the box attached to the house? Electric Company only worries about restoring juice to the electrical pole - Homeowners are responsible for the box and wiring from the pole to the house.

Sorry I'm not able to describe this better. I'm clueless when it comes to things like this (and live in a newer home where all wiring is underground and not subject to this problem) Perhaps those here with more knowledge could fill our OK friends in before something happens to them...?


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#116060 - 12/15/07 09:43 PM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: dougwalkabout]
capsu78 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/09/07
Posts: 98
Loc: Chicagoland IL
"A note that may be of use: if there is still water pressure (not clear if that's the case), one way to prevent freezing is to let your taps drip/run slowly. It takes an extra amount of cold to freeze moving water."

I had to think this through... If I am without power, I am without (well) water. So I guess the flip side would be to open all the faucets, and intentionally bleed the water out of my lines, ending at the basement (lowest) watervalve...Does this sound correct?

As a follow up, this should be simple but now I don't know...
How do I determine which pipes are most prone to turn to frozen pipes? Assuming a well insulted house, I am guessing my basement holds temp above freezing longest..

Anyone have experience in this? I think I just added my handheld Fiske temperature reader to potential "emergency tool shed" status.
_________________________
"The last time I had a "good suprise", I was 5 and it was my birthday"

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#116061 - 12/15/07 09:52 PM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: capsu78]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2847
Loc: La-USA
If you still have running water, allowing a trickle of water run from each faucet will keep your pipes from freezing/expanding, for the reasons already mentioned.

Draining the water from your pipes will keep them from bursting because there is no water to freeze/expand to split the pipes. The piping freezes and that should not split them.

Leaving the faucets open even though you can't drain the water will still allow some room for the freezing water to expand, thus keeping your pipes from splitting.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#116082 - 12/16/07 12:36 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: capsu78]
past_digger Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 26
Loc: SD, USA
The P-trap can still freeze and break - the 'U' shaped bend under the sink. I suppose a toilet tank and trap there would freeze, also. My neighbor drains the pipes and then pours a cup of antifreeze into each sink/tub when shutting down their summer lake cabin (trailer) for the season. Probably not environmentally correct - anyone know any other solution?

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#116092 - 12/16/07 01:35 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: capsu78]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3223
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Yes, drain as much "supply side" water as you can, and closely monitor the temperature in the basement. It would need to drop a degree or two below the freezing point, and stay there for a while, before pipes would burst (32-F / 0-C is the freezing/melting point, so it's mostly slush not ice at that temperature; it has to form solid ice to expand).

Ideally, it's best to use compressed air to blow out as much water as possible. That's standard practice when winterizing cabins and RVs around here. A little bit of water in a line won't burst it, even if it does freeze solid. Drain the toilet tank too.

I don't know if you have a pressure tank. There's probably a drain valve on that, and it may be the lowest point that's easy to access. If there's a pump and piping above ground, and you can't drain them, positively isolate the power (isolation switch and breaker) and cover with cardboard, old blankets, etc. You don't want a fire hazard when the power comes back on. Impeller pumps usually have priming/drain plugs, and it's probably wise to remove these.

On the "drain side:" past_digger is right: the traps under the sinks, shower, and toilet can also freeze. You probably shouldn't drain these, because they seal off the noxious gases in your septic tank from the air in your home.

The antifreeze normally used for the drains in cabins/RVs is non-toxic, unlike the glycol in your car rad. I keep a couple of jugs around just in case.

In a pinch, you could pour in a bunch of alcohol, or steal a few cupfuls of glycol from a car. Anything to keep the water from freezing into a solid, expanding mass.

It's also worth noting that salt water freezes at a few degrees lower than fresh water. It's not a lot, but everybody has salt; and depending on your situation it may buy you a small safety margin.






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#116094 - 12/16/07 01:44 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: DFW]
NeighborBill Offline
Enthusiastic
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 385
Loc: Oklahoma City
The power line going to the house is the electric company's responsibility (as well as the power meter itself).

However, the weather head (pole sticking out of the power meter) is the responsibility of the house owner's electrician.

Several power lines are still down in various neighbor's back yards; after the power came back, I was told (by the power company) that the back yards and/or the fences that the lines were draped on were NOT safe to be around, and that they would get to them when they could.

Evidently, it's all about numbers right now here in Oke City--restore power to the greatest number of folks first.

On the other hand, though, most of the administrators of my hospital live nearby in a ritzy historical neighborhood (me, too, but mine's not as "ritzy"). No power for six of nine of them, so far. What I can't understand is why none of them bought a generator, when they make six figures minimum.

C'est la vie.
_________________________
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and ablest -- form of life in this section of space, a critter that can be killed but can't be tamed. --Robert A. Heinlein

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#116113 - 12/16/07 04:58 AM Re: Day three without power in OK [Re: DFW]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
If I had to guess, they still had everything "on". Most systems, especially big beasts like your fridge, have a large initial draw. If everything suddenly came on, the draw might have been more than their wiring could manage. Again, that's just a guess.

But it is the reason why SOP here is if we loose power, turn off every breaker except for the one to the overhead lights in the living room and the outside lights. Which get turned on- when they are on, throw the other breakers one at a time.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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