When my situation improves, I'm looking to replace my current ALICE pack. Of the options I'm looking at, there is "wow" and "very wow" for prices.

The problem is, I LIKE how my large ALICE is made. Sure, I'd love PALS webbing on the lid and replacing the radio pocket, but I can survive. But I can't find one other than the MALICE packs (the "wow" price) and Blackhawks SOF (I've seen their stuff fall apart before, so no) that is 1000D cordura. I like the material, it is over built and I don't have to worry about it.

So, I guess what I'm babbling towards is, does anyone know of a seller of large ALICEs in 1000D rather than the USGI stuff.

Having obtained recently an industrial strength sewing machine, I am comtemplating making such a pack to replace my large ruck (which I also love-after replacing my too small issued kidney pad). In my search for pack cloth, I have not run across anyone making ALICEs. Seems that dear ALICE is considered anachronistic...even her bones are being replaced by (shudder) plastic...I've still got my issue frame (and cargo shelf insert), and while I've popped a few rivets over the years due to over-enthusiastic exits via 'chute and 'copter strut, I've never managed to permanently damage my pack.

Another option is to outsource. A friend of mine wanted a double-depth map case (he was a bit of a pack-rat when it came to checklists), contacted a company in Korea, had it custom made. Price was about what you'd expect, about triple the cost of a single map case, plus shipping.


The only thing holding me back is un-sewing beloved ALICE to make a pattern...don't know if I can do it. We've been through a lot together, and I hate divorce...even if I'm leaving her for the ultimate trophy wife

Hi Ironraven,

I have some information for you that may help your search for a larger/tougher pack but since I have never handled an ALICE pack before I hope I am not sending you off in the wrong direction.

From what I have seen on the internet I think the US ALICE pack and the Canadian model 64 patern pack are very similar (near sisters)?

There is a well established company called CP Gear by Wheeler (Canadian Forces ex-member), in Fredricton, New Brunswick that makes military issue type equipment mostly directed at Canadian Forces personal. I have handled a few small items from this company and they are of excellent quality and well designed.
Link to model 64 pattern pack at CPGEAR:http://www.cpgear.com/default.asp?mn=1.19.56&f=pd&pid=218

This 64 Pattern pack is constructed of 1000D Cordura nylon, assembled in Canada, available in olive/Cadpat Desert/Cadpat Woodland, is 20% larger than the original pack bag and can be bought in pieces or the entire pack assemble.

The cost for the bag alone is $93.54 rising to $268.00 for the entire pack.

Question for you; Is this style of pack really as good as people on the Internet forums say it is and worth spending this amount of money on, with all the other high-tech models of pack available today? I would appreciate your input as a person who has actually used one a lot; as I also am looking to purchase a rugged outdoor pack.

Thanks and hope this helps,

Mike

I'm from New Brunswick, have family and visited Fredricton more times then I can count, even have an uncle that works at CFB Gagetown... I never heard of of CP Gear!!!!!!

It would of saved all kinds of money growing up if I knew of this company!!!!!

Kris

Hi Kris,

The "About Us" part of the CP Gear webpage states that they have been in the business for 20 years and are located between Fredricton and the airport, there is even a photo of the store/shop.

I forgot to add in my previous post that I am in now way connected to CP Gear, I just think there products appear well made and designed.

Mike

Hi ironraven,

I found another supplier of ALICE/Patern 64 products on the internet at Drop Zone Tactical of Edmonton, Alberta, http://www.dropzonetactical.com/backpacks/64alice.html

I see in this website photos how the ALICE frame is different from the Canadian 64 frame but it states that these new bags will attach to both.

It may not be as large as you are looking for.

Mike

"The problem is, I LIKE how my large ALICE is made. Sure, I'd love PALS webbing on the lid and replacing the radio pocket, but I can survive. But I can't find one other than the MALICE packs (the "wow" price) and Blackhawks SOF (I've seen their stuff fall apart before, so no) that is 1000D cordura. I like the material, it is over built and I don't have to worry about it."

The PALS webbing, or something like it can be stitched on. Similarly the radio pocket can be removed, replaced or modified as need be. All of this can be done by hand. Saving both the cost of the new pack and a sewing machine.

A lot of makers are either very proud of their product, are used to government purchasing agents who don't ask the price or they think I'm stupid and/or made out of money.

I have noticed that the more 'tactical' they project their products to be and the more pictures there are of tough guys who look like they are smelling farts the more the stuff costs. I keep thinking they are selling 'high-concept' art and retail manhood more than practical gear. They can keep their tactical 'sizzle'. I want the steak.

Don't entirely give up on less than perfect gear. The difference between top line and good is often stitching and details of assembly. The actual materials used are often identical. Which means if you learn how to sew, and take the time to do it right, you can make discount gear entirely reliable and already reliable stuff match the top-dollar gear in performance. At a fraction of the price.

Once you get into modifying your gear I can fine tune it to suit me. If the pocket is too large or small or in the wrong place I can break out my seam ripper and move or modify it. If the stitching looks a little weak it is easy to add another line or two. Once you get into the swing of things it is simple to convert patch pockets to tunnel pockets, add webbing or reinforcements and make it work the way you want it to.

Even the high dollar stuff can benefit from a little added stitching in places. Nobody is perfect.

I drove by that building soooo many times!!!! Just never knew what it was.

Things you find out about your province AFTER you leave it... LOL

I've looked at them. Nice, but I'm looking for something for cold weather use, I've already got a summer ruck I'm happy with. And the price is in the "very wow" range for what it is- my current THE is that big and hurt a lot less to buy. What I need is a pack big enough to carry all my summer gear, plus cold weather gear (clothing, slightly different food), that isn't so long the dry bag for my sleeping gear is banging at my knees and the top isn't higher than I am. It would also probably be used in the summer without the dry bag on the bottom, which I prefer.

My ALICE is as old as I am- I had to do some stitching on it when I switched packs a few weeks ago, so I'm thinking it is ready for retirement. When and if I can afford it, I'm leaning towards the Tactical Tailor MALICE 2 with full length PALS panels on the side, and possibly without the claymore pouch on the lid. That will let me carry on of the various LRRP/Patrol-type buttpacks (like this one without it being too high. I'd love to get it with a PALS panel where the radio pouch would be, but I've already spoken with TT and they say it is a no can do- when I finally do this, I'm probably ask if they can put PALS on the lid. Yeah or nay on that, I'll hang a HUMP in the frame to give me some padding and to carry a 100 ounce bladder and wrap the frame in paracord so it more comfortable.

What having the smaller pack on the top does is (with a little bit of custom cut straps- I can do that easily enough) give me more than my vest can carry by popping a few side release buckles. I know that the straps of the lid of an ALICE are a perfect fit for any PALS pouch that is four channels wide, just lace them through and make sure the guide tabs on the lid are placed so the pocket doesn't slide around on you. Grab that, and when I have a moment, either loops the straps and slide on pads (which would be under the butt pack when it is carried on the big pack) or with the back adapter for my vest added just clip it on.

The goal is my core survival kit, a small FAK, 24 hours of food and 2 liters of water without real shelter in the vest. Double those consumables, plus a water filter, tyvek tarp, poncho and liner, when the butt pack and vest are together. 3 liters in a bladder, plus five days of food in the big bag, plus my sleeping bag, big FAK, heavy tools and stove. Scalability is a good thing. If I need EVEN MORE stuff, the full length PALS panels give me maximum versatility down the road.

Don't know if it's what you're looking for, but have you checked KIFARU packs. Plenty of PALS webbing to attach the pockets you already have.

I've looked at Kifaru.

One, set up the way I want, I don't like the price.

Two, it looks like a lot of their bags are a tube with a zipper at each end, and while I'm finally trusting zippers, I don't trust them THAT much.

Three, I want to have the option of MOLLE, but I want to have the pockets that I know I'll be using normally hard mounted to save weight and money. Only future or mission specific expansion pockets and anything that should be able to be detached quickly should be on MOLLE, in my opinion.

Four, Tactical Tailor, while a well known and time tested brand, isn't a "cult" brand. I try to avoid anything with a profile that high.

Got any idea what that will weight, empty???

With the frame, about 8 pounds. I know, sounds heavy, but by deleating the need for a dry bag in the summer, losing a quart of water and some other things, it is going to be saving me weight when I strip off the small pack.

There will be an overall weight gain with the small pack, but expanded capability as well. I'm going to be doubling the amount of water I can carry on just the vest, and with the vest and small pack, I'll have a full gallon, which is one of my goals. Seven quarts gives me two days of water, and I usually only carry one day's worth. No more being limited by water courses, which will open up some bug out routes for me.

Two things I ALWAYS like to carry "too much" of are dry tinder and clean water.

You can never have too much water, at least most of the time. Got any idea what the total weight of your rig will be, fully loaded??? My back is starting to hurt just thinking of it, but then I have a bum back...

Well, right now, it breaks out as follows:

Ditch kit: ~7 pounds, mounted in a chest harness w/ 1 liter of water

BOB (summer configuration): ~40 pounds, in a frameless pack w/ 4 liters of water and five days of food

Winter add ons add about 22 pounds. Approx 16 pounds is tied up in my old, early 80s vintage, USGI surplus arctic bag.

Along with a new pack, I'm planning on replacing my cold weather sleeping system. I can cut half the weight of that using modern materials. I've also got nylon tarps that are going to be replaced with tyvek, which should save me about four pounds.

The configuration I'm looking at will take the sleeping bag out from under the bottom of the pack. I know from experience that, at least to me, adding 10 pounds onto the weight of the pack proper takes less out of me than having 5 pounds in a dry bag slapping the backs of my legs. So if I can get my load to stop playing grabass, I can manage the weight better.

It is not going to be a small pack. I'm the first one to admit to this- between BOB, the ditch kit and the small pack, I expect to have about 10-12 pounds added after swaps for lighter gear, half of it in water. It isn't designed for ultralighters, although I am going to be incorporating some of their gear. My basic plan has always been a day+ of water, 3+ days of food; I'm at 5+ days of food, and I want to get to 2 days of water. I've got plenty of water options on my main route, but it is one of three major East-West roads in the state and most of it is down stream of either old quarries or farm land, so I'm always a little nervous with it.

And I do intend to field test the load. If it is too heavy, the small pack idea gets discarded and the bag for it gets sold off or retained as a day pack. But once upon a time, my gear ran about 65 pounds total, in the summer, and that was packed into a stock ALICE pack, frame and pads. I road hiked that beast once on what is now "route one" for me. With this rig, I plan to do it again- dry run for a bug out on foot by main route, complete with two anticipated way points for sleeping. (And one is programmed for the first night, so I can dump and reorganize gear with a friend if I have to.)

Makes my old worn out back scream at the thought, but it sounds like you have your plan well thought out, let us know how it goes...