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#110334 - 10/28/07 01:35 PM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: Tjin]
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1200
Loc: Nottingham, UK
Originally Posted By: PC2K
the most enviormently friendly solution is obviously leg power and more healthier too.
As a compromise, I recently bought an eBike. That's like a push-bike with a small electric motor for assistance. It takes the pain out of hills and increases my average speed from around 10mph to around 15. I choose to live a couple of miles from where I work, so there is no real need to commute by car.

(It's not very useful as a survival vehicle, though. Better off with a normal push-bike for that.)
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Quality is addictive.

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#110371 - 10/28/07 09:53 PM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: Brangdon]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
Getting back to the original question, would I drive Prius - yes. I own two, an '02 and an '07, and am happy with both. Before I bought the '02 I'd never owned a car younger than my kids, but I had the money and really liked three things about the car: fuel efficiency, tailpipe emissions, and the all-Internet buying program. I bought the '02 Prius for MSRP on toyota.com, delivered a $500 downpayment to the local dealer, and two months later when the car came in from Japan I brought another check for the balance due, and that was that. I think all told I paid $22,500 for that first Prius, and about $25,000 (all taxes title etc) for the second in June of this year. Its like the Visa commercials, car $20k+, not having to hassle with the car dealer - priceless. I have spent possibly two hours in a Toyota dealership since, mostly waiting for some OEM air filters and ordering the second Prius. It is not a high maintenance car by any means.

Tailpipe emissions is pretty important to me - I want to minimize my footprint, and SULEV ('02) and ZEV ('07) help alot. I like the fuel efficiency of diesels, but don't know where they will fall on the emissions spectrum. Biodiesel sounds great, except I'm not sure I like the idea of turning over arable land to producing biofuels longterm.

In terms of fuel efficiency I compare the Prius to the car I would have bought, probably a Corolla or Camry (three previous cars were Corollas). I get 40-44 MPG on the older Prius, 43-48 MPG on the newer one. Going up and coming down Mt Rainier National Park I can easily top 54 MPG, no worries about engine braking etc. But mid-40s is typical, and by comparison to the Corolla I'm getting better mileage with less emissions. I haven't pencilled out to find out when I've 'paid off' the Priuses - there was a big $2500 tax deduction on the first, and I'll get another $750 on the second, but in terms of driving and gas consumption I suspect it will all even out. Both cars together use less gas on a monthly basis that my wife's Honda CR-V.

The car is very much a Toyota - quality construction, but nothing too fancy. Absolutely zero issues with either car, provided I take care of the basic maintenance. The battery doesn't worry me a bit, I've heard of Prius taxis with 300K+ miles with fully functional batteries, I'll have parked the '02 and grow blackberries over it before it needs a refresh. Granted I can't fit a 4x8 sheet of plywood in the back, but I have strapped 4x8 ply to the top, there's not much I miss carrying in a full size pickup truck. Its a good trailhead car, getting me and up to 4 Scouts (one on the smallish side) where we need to get, full packs in the back. Yet we will take the Scoutmaster's Suburban for bigger outings, its just that much roomier and easier to collect a trip fee to pay off the extra gas. No problems with power, lots of front end torque that gets you off the line before most others, plenty of freeway speed.

Is it the car of the future, or some kind of only way to deal with the high price of gas and tailpipe emissions? How the heck do I know. But it does more than any other car along these lines I could locate at the time, and I was happy to buy both of them. As I once pointed out to a Detroit zealot, the difference between what Toyota achieved in the Prius and Detroit avoided doing at all was immense. Maybe the best thing about the Prius is coming to a stop light, and the engine just turns off. Silence - call it my aha moment. The newer one is a bit like driving Jean-Luc Picard's Enterprise to the '02's Capt Kirk's Enterprise - I miss driving the '02 actually. My daughter drives it now, and we're happy that she's in a relatively crash safe and fuel efficient car.

I won't cast aspersions on anyone who disagrees about the Prius, to each their own. I seem to hear some snide stuff from diesel proponents, sometimes from people who don't own a diesel but hold up the promise of diesel as some kind of anti-hybrid antidote. Really, what's the difference? Most Prius owners I've met are engine or tech geeks, they bought for economy or the whole tech package - they would be happy to see a competitive technology that does the hybrid one better. I don't think there are that many hybrid zealots, but you may have tough time convincing anyone who owns a Prius that next year's or the 09 diesels are really going to turn heads away from the hybrid. Me, I still have some questions on tailpipe emissions that diesel hasn't answered yet - but I hope they do, and the first diesels come in at a competitive ZEV / SULEV. And I may look at buying another car if Toyota puts out a plug-in hybrid, because my driving pattern would really benefit. I do think there's some wrong info put out there, which has been pretty effectively debunked by smarter folks than me. If anyone has a grudge, you might read up on the CNW study and how its been debunked. http://priuschat.com/Prius-vs-HUMMER-Exploding-the-Myth-t31938.html

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#110408 - 10/29/07 01:19 AM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: Lono]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 957
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Quote:
Prius taxis with 300K+ miles with fully functional batteries


Thanks. That's really good to know. It'll take me about 20-30 years to see that many miles.

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#110419 - 10/29/07 02:15 AM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: UTAlumnus]
SheepDog Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 232
Loc: Wild Wonderful WV
No last time I looked into it (about a year ago) the hybrids appeared to be as bad or possibly worse on the environment than the "normal" autos we are use to! They did have the advantage of leaving the majority of their pollutants in places like China, Canada and some European countries instead of our own back yards!!

Besides if you run the numbers you are better off running your vehicles for 10+ years economically as well as environmentally since it hits both your wallet and the environment to make a new vehicle!!

Besides the 3 tons of crushed stone and load of wood that I hauled Friday would clash with the design specifications of the hybrids that I have seen!!

SD
_________________________
When the wolf attacks he will find that some who run with the flock are not sheep!

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#112293 - 11/12/07 01:41 PM Re: would you drive a hybird car? [Re: SheepDog]
HTMLSpinnr Offline

SysAdmin
Member

Registered: 02/17/07
Posts: 100
Loc: Surprise, AZ
I personally own TWO Toyota Prius - a 2004 (current generation) and a 2002 (previous generation) that my wife now drives. My folks and my aunt/uncle each own a 2006 Prius as well.

I have about 91k miles on mine, and my wife has almost 50k miles on hers. My experience has been a consistent 47-52mpg in my car, and I've had as high as almost 60mpg when I chose to really baby it for a tank. My wife's experience is lower MPG due to very short trips and the design of the 2002's A/C system that requires a running engine. Combine that with Phoenix heat and sitting in parking lots picking up kids from school will yield a lower number. It's still higher than she'd get in a conventional car, and FAR better than a typical "soccer mom" SUV.

The battery cable info is FUD. The cables run down a protected raceway underneath the car, are bright orange, and carry DC current only. The airbag deployment does trigger a master disconnect. Even if the batteries were live, cutting through one cable would not cause injury as neither + or - terminals are bonded to the car. Toyota has, on multiple occasions, disseminated rescue info for all of it's hybrid vehicles to ensure rescue personnel safety. They clearly outline how to handle a battery puncture incident as well as where the battery cables are and what the risks of compromising them might be.

I can't vouch one way or the other on battery recycling with the exception that Toyota owns that responsibility. My original battery is just fine on my car, and there have been example cases with cars 2x my mileage still going strong on the original battery. Reuse of "wrecked Prius" batteries would be a likely option down the recycling channel through reuse to limit "adding new batteries" to the pool.

I'd say drive one - see if it fits your needs. Let go of the American need for horsepower and you'll do just fine with this. Tt's an extremely versatile "hauler" in that I can toss my seats down (front included) and fit many typical household and gardening items into the car. For me, it also makes a great server hauler. ;-)

Yes - I also participate on PriusChat.com as well.
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Rick Johnson, SysAdmin
Volunteer (read part-time) SysAdmin for ETS servers
Linux Geek, Private Pilot (ASEL), and long ago, Eagle Scout

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