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#112045 - 11/09/07 12:33 PM Re: A note on Liquid Civilization [Re: massacre]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Wasn't Reagan a real master of that "taxation via devaluation" approach? IIRC he said he wouldn't raise taxes, then kept the treasury slaves up till the wee hours printing reams of bills.

Yes, without sticking to a standard, the mint is fairly loose, and it seems, as you say, the trend is only gaining in popularity.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#112046 - 11/09/07 12:38 PM Re: A note on Liquid Civilization [Re: MartinFocazio]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I thought I'd acknowledged earlier that the techno stuff is the exception. If not, then let me say now I concur with your observation there. However, for groceries, I am certain that prices have only gone up on pretty much everything since the 80s. Gallons of milk are double or more of what they were then, same with eggs, meat, bread, but most especially produce. I know when my kid was born in 89 I was buying good ground beef at about 80 cents a pound on average in three different locations in the US. I haven't seen it below $1.30 for even the cheap stuff on sale for at least 3 years now. Maybe I have been in the wrong markets. It just seems like the prices never come down, just up and up and up...
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#112054 - 11/09/07 02:05 PM Re: A note on Liquid Civilization [Re: ironraven]
massacre Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
I'm not sure about inflation clauses, excellent question, but my guess is that it's doubtful. There's inherent risk in trading currency, and the dollar has enjoyed a tremendous run as the worlds backup currency for decades. I think that run may be at an end and the local and global consequences will show up soon.

Just look at Zimbabwe's alarming inflation and the utter economic devestation it has caused. I might also add, that if history is any indicator (and it is) - every fiat currency EVER created has failed in precisely the same way. It sounds good up front, you can drive expansion and growth, up until leaders with no restraint take it to the next level. A return to a gold and/or silver standard would be the only way to hold politicians in check from creating money from thin air, devaluing your buying power (the hidden tax I spoke of earlier) by causing rampant inflation.

Actually, the sad thing is that Congress is the ONLY entity granted the power to mint money under the constitution and has no authority to re-grant that authority to some other entity. It has done so in naming the Federal Reserve (neither Federal, nor a "reserve"). So, in reality, the politicians don't really inflate it anymore, the central bankers at the Fed do. Oh, and the Fed no longer reports the M3 to tell the politicians overseeing it how much money they have printed. So when you lose 13 Billion in printed bills in Iraq and nothing comes of it, I wonder just how little a drop in the bucket that was. If that wasn't enough to scare the crap out of anyone who lives in the US or uses US currency, 10 out of the 12 banks that comprise the Fed are owned by non-US entities.

I'd say buy Canadian, but buying any real hard and trade-able goods (gold, silver, bullets, etc.) is the only hedge. And *some* things have gone down in price due to cheaper overseas manufacture, but I do a lot of the shopping for my family and I can assure you that in the last 7 years or so, most things have increased in price quite a bit. I used to be able to take my family of 3 out for a meal for $15. Now I'm lucky to get out for under $25 or $30. The $15 was as recent as 3 years ago.
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

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#112056 - 11/09/07 02:10 PM Re: A note on Liquid Civilization [Re: benjammin]
massacre Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 781
Loc: Central Illinois
I'm pretty sure it started with Nixon, but yeah, Reagan cranked up the cash machine.

One of my favorite quotes on the subject:
"Although the gold standard could hardly be portrayed as having produced a period of price tranquility, it was the case that the price level in 1929 was not much different, on net, from what it had been in 1800." – Alan Greenspan, December 19, 2002
_________________________
Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards.

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#112065 - 11/09/07 06:04 PM Re: A note on Liquid Civilization [Re: massacre]
LED Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/01/05
Posts: 1474
You're right, Nixon abolished the gold standard. From what I understand, every president from Lincoln on abandoned the gold standard during times of war to print more money. Anyway, here's a clip from an interesting article.

Quote:

It can be argued, though, that the Fed has slowed money printing and that this is a factor that is causing the subprime crisis. Gary North, who is one of the best money watchers around, is watching the adjusted monetary base. He writes that "the adjusted monetary base has risen at [only] about 1.6% per annum since mid-March." This fact can not be ignored. But looking at the adjusted monetary base is looking at the ingredients of a dish before it is cooked in the oven. I prefer to look at a dish after it is cooked, for me this is the M2 (non-seasonally adjusted) Fed money number. M2NSA is growing at roughly a 6.0% annualized rate. Ron Paul, the only presidential candidate to understand economics (and probably the only candidate to actually look at money supply numbers) watches MZM money supply data. According to Dr. Paul, MZM money supply is growing at a 12% annualized rate. Thus, only Gary North's adjusted money growth figure can justify the subprime crash as being a business cyclical crash.

If, indeed, the M2NSA numbers or the MZM numbers are more accurate, then it suggests that the money that was going into the subprime sector is simply being re-directed and we will be in for a doozie of a recession once the business cycle does hit.

Here's a quick lesson on business cycles. The Federal Reserve prints money out of thin air and this distorts the economy as this newly printed money enters the monetary system, usually headed into the capital goods sector. When the printing stops, the capital goods sector crashes. Voilà, the business cycle. Why does the Fed eventually stop printing? Because all the money printing eventually causes serious price inflation that forces the Fed to stop printing before a runaway inflation begins. We are near this point now, with oil near $100 per barrel and gold over $800 per ounce. It's business cycle bust or runaway inflation, as choices for Mr. Bernanke.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/wallach4.html


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#112073 - 11/09/07 08:07 PM Re: A note on Liquid Civilization [Re: MartinFocazio]
MarshAviator Offline
Marsh Aviator
Journeyman

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 70
Loc: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
From the Austrian school of economics;
http://www.mises.org/story/2780
pretty much covers inflation which is really running around 10 percent by the way.
One of the funny things is the Government inflation numbers EXCLUDE;Fuel,Food and medical as these are too volatile.

We will all be reading more on this as the Financial outlook gets more gloomy.

Stock up on the wood and supplies.

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