Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 8 of 12 < 1 2 ... 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 >
Topic Options
#110887 - 10/31/07 08:03 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
Hacksaw
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo
...which was the focus of the magazine article.


When I read the article my perception was that it was aimed at anybody with a 'Here's 10 things anybody can do to cut weight!' message...which is the thing that concerns me because ultra light hiking is NOT for everybody.

Top
#110889 - 10/31/07 08:07 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
Quote:
Look through the real-life threads here at ETS where people got into trouble and needed a rescue. Were the victims ultralighters? None that I have read.

I disagree w/ not taking a map, etc too but if you're going to complain about tax dollars, show me a real ultralighter who cost you some tax dollars, not a know-nothing tourist who hadn't a clue about anything...


I don't know if scanning the ETS threads would give you the proper perspective on something like this. I live in the Rocky Mountain west. I frequently read about hikers who have gone missing and are later presumed or found dead. Many of them have one thing in common: they are described as "experienced hikers." The articles don't say whether or not they were "real ultralighters". I suspect that more than a few of the dead guys thought they were. I guess maybe they were wrong--or maybe they were carrying razor blades instead of knives, or figured they didn't need a map or water. frown

Top
#110894 - 10/31/07 08:37 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: ]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Hacksaw
When I read the article my perception was that it was aimed at anybody with a 'Here's 10 things anybody can do to cut weight!' message...


I read the article on Monday night, and that was my impression too. It was a sort of "let's everyone learn lessons from the ultralighters" article.

One of my complaints with BP magazine is that they often trivialize serious things. In a recent first aid article, they said, in conjunction with bee stings, something about "treat for anaphlyactic shock." Um, really helpful there guys. No mention of how to recognize anaphlyactic shock, how serious (life threatening) it is, or how to treat it.

In this "learn from the ultralighters" article, there was no mention of the potential consequences of a choosing a razor blade vs. a knife. The idea of carrying empty water bottles did not stress the importance of intensely scrutinizing and planning your route around water (personally, I always carry at least a liter even on hikes where I know there will be water up ahead). And the idea of not carrying a map is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What if you are forced to alter your route? (e.g. there's a section of the PCT near me that is closed) How do you check the distance to your next water point so you'll know how much you need to carry? What if a trail sign is missed, missing, or vandalized? I once missed a signed trail junction in the dark, and soon said, "this doesn't feel right," to myself. I pulled out my topo, shot a bearing on the trail and then compared it to the bearing on map. I was on the wrong trail! Thank God I had a topo. The wrong trail would have led me miles in the wrong direction, potentially into a survival situation. No topo, no real basis for making such a decision, truly a shot in the dark.
_________________________
Adventures In Stoving

Top
#110895 - 10/31/07 08:46 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: Glock-A-Roo]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: Glock-A-Roo


I would object to that too... if it applied to true ultralight hikers ...


I echo that thought. My criticism is toward BP magazine for presenting such ideas to a general audience without any discussion of the potential consequences of adopting the practices described. The way it was written acted as though there were no risk involved at all.

As to climbers and ultralighters themselves, every one has to make their own choices as to what is too much and what is too little in terms of gear. I respect that some will choose differently than I would choose and wouldn't want to infringe on anyone's freedom.
_________________________
Adventures In Stoving

Top
#110931 - 11/01/07 01:43 AM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: norad45]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
That is my experience and observation as well. Most ultralighters have no back up plan if something goes wrong. I've seen a number of them shake down their packs:

-no medical, or a business card piece of molskin and a couple feet of duct tape
-no firestarter, or a book of paper matches with half the matches and most of the jacket torn off to save weight
-less than liter of water
-no water purification, FOLLOWING A RIVER WITH BEAVER DAMS EVERY MILE (yes, I know I'm shouting- it is frustration)
-no whistle, no mirror
-no rain gear, or they cut down their ponchos to the point their legs weren't covered
-wearing shorts, nylon socks and tevas (in October in the Green and White Mountains)
-everything is made out of ultralight material that can't take going off the trail- I watched on pack literally come apart as the user tried cut through a rasberry thicket

They are fine if everything goes according to plan. If it doesn't, and they can't hike out to a town where their cut down credit card is accepted, they are in deep something. I've got no problem with lightening the load, so long as you don't eject your common sense in the process. Reading various websites and forums and listening to conversations at outdoors shops, it seems like too many of these guys are in a race to see who can furthest with the lightest and win the title of the baddest dude on the trail.
I take a lot of tips from them, but you won't see me using a pack that is made of material so thin it is translucent or failing to have the means to execute Plan B.


Edited by ironraven (11/01/07 01:50 AM)
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

Top
#110941 - 11/01/07 02:12 AM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: ironraven]
SwampDonkey Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/08/07
Posts: 1268
Loc: Northeastern Ontario, Canada
I agree with you ironraven about ultralighters not having a back-up plan.

I have never dealt with ultralight hikers (we just do not have the trails here) but I have a lot of exposure with wilderness canoe groups including youth groups. These are usually terrific people with lots of experience, but what I find they are missing is a means to contact the outside world if something goes wrong (eg smashed canoe) or if someone gets seriously sick or injured.

Most file good trip plans but do not carry a satellite phone, PLB, or even basic signal tools such as a mirror or flares. They also do not usually carry any simple incoming communication devices like an FM or weather radio so they are unaware of impending storms or fire dangers/restrictions.

In todays world of available high-tech communication I would not allow my child to venture off on a wilderness trip without the group having some form of outgoing emergency communication.

My opinion,

Mike

Top
#110954 - 11/01/07 02:41 AM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: cedfire]
teacher Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 691
Backpacker also carried an article on fasting while hiking called
"walking on water."

Top
#110973 - 11/01/07 05:32 AM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: teacher]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Now that really is nuts. What kind of advice is that?
_________________________
Adventures In Stoving

Top
#110974 - 11/01/07 05:42 AM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: SwampDonkey]
Hikin_Jim Offline
Sheriff
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 1804
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: SwampDonkey
Most file good trip plans but do not carry a satellite phone, PLB, or even basic signal tools such as a mirror or flares. They also do not usually carry any simple incoming communication devices like an FM or weather radio so they are unaware of impending storms or fire dangers/restrictions.


Hmm. I've been hiking and backpacking for quite a long time, including with groups such as the Sierra Club. I've never seen anyone carry a sat phone or PLB. I have seen people carry avvy beacons, and carrying a cell phone is common place (yes, I do know they're not very reliable). Now mirrors and whistles are a different matter. That's pretty standard gear with the serious hikers I've met. Flares are a pretty big no no here in Calif. This place is a tinder box much of the time. I believe we got less than 3" of rain last season. I also haven't seen FM or wx radios. The only radios I have seen are the little two way ones, some of which do have the wx band. FM radio doesn't work worth a darn in the backcountry.

Just reflecting on what's common practice out there. Pretty hard to carry it all when you're really backpacking, not just taking short trips.
_________________________
Adventures In Stoving

Top
#111004 - 11/01/07 02:13 PM Re: Backpacker Magazine and wild suggestions... [Re: Hikin_Jim]
Glock-A-Roo Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/16/03
Posts: 1076
Originally Posted By: Hikin_Jim
...My criticism is toward BP magazine for presenting such ideas to a general audience without any discussion of the potential consequences of adopting the practices described. The way it was written acted as though there were no risk involved at all...


Great point, Jim; I concur. The magazine treats serious issues with a hand wave then moves on to "buy this new SUV!". What a load. BTW I absolutely loved the photo series from your big hike this summer.

I also agree w/ the notion of UL guys really riding the razor's edge (pun intended!) where any nontrivial "oh shiite!" situation is a recipe for disaster. Another climbing reference is apropos here: free soloists, those who climb 5.x terrain with no ropes or protection at all. They very rarely screw up, but when they do it is final. But again, they rarely cost taxpayers much $$$ beyond a simple body recovery... if the pieces can be found.

Top
Page 8 of 12 < 1 2 ... 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 >



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
March
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online
2 registered (Russ, M_a_x), 237 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Janysboy, FlyerOne, galenSOM, milspecretail, jleeryan99
5276 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Hazards we face - What are the odds?
by brandtb
Today at 01:31 PM
Where to discuss knife rights?
by Phaedrus
Yesterday at 05:57 AM
Can't use it if you don't have it
by hikermor
Yesterday at 03:56 AM
Customizing Your Medical Kit
by Jeanette_Isabelle
03/20/19 01:26 PM
Bear Spray or Handgun in a Pack, are not Bear Spra
by chaosmagnet
03/19/19 01:37 PM
New portable Solar charger
by Russ
03/18/19 05:12 PM
To Build a Fire - Jack London
by hthomp
03/17/19 05:27 PM
Survival book borrowed in 1977 returned to Library
by Jeanette_Isabelle
03/17/19 02:40 AM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.