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#104783 - 09/06/07 02:04 AM Re: Steve Fossett SAR [Re: Russ]
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2198
One person's "week" is another person's couple days. Plus, a week of subsistence rations isn't the same as a week of rations that would keep you functional. It's all a matter of perspective.

My Aviator Survival Pak is designed to keep 2-people functional for 2-3 days, depending upon climate. Some might call that a week's worth.

Finally, one must never take anything in the media during an incident at face value. Always keep that in mind.
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#104787 - 09/06/07 02:28 AM Re: Search Details from AFRCC [Re: Katie]
Doug_Ritter Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/28/01
Posts: 2198
More details of the search from the Air Force / AFRCC perspective is on http://www.af.mil:80/news/story.asp?id=123066968


Edited by Doug_Ritter (09/06/07 02:32 AM)
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Doug Ritter
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Equipped To Survive®
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#104795 - 09/06/07 03:37 AM VFR Preparation Recommendations [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
JCWohlschlag Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Sterling, Virginia, United Sta...
One of the things I’ve noticed is that many of these missing aircraft SAR operations are reported by the media as “no flight plan filed”. I understand the basics of Visual Flight Rule (VFR — no flight plan required) and Instrument Flight Rule (IFR — flight plan mandatory and ATC likes to get in touch with you if you deviate from that plan without notice).

I know we have several general aviation pilots on the board, including Doug and HTMLSpinnr. What are you guys’ input about preparedness and VFR flights? I know Doug wrote on this site (somewhere) that the “VFR system isn’t perfect”. I believe that you are still able to file a flight plan even under VFR, and I know that there are options such as ATC flight following (unless ATC resources are stretched) available to VFR pilots. What, other than a properly packed survival kit and a PLB, do you guys think is proper “preparation” for GA VFR aircraft?
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“Hiking is just walking where it’s okay to pee. Sometimes old people hike by mistake.” — Demitri Martin

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#104798 - 09/06/07 04:05 AM Re: VFR Preparation Recommendations [Re: JCWohlschlag]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
I am dismayed( but not suprised)with comments of Steve having physical and psychological gifts to walk out of such situations.Once more we have Jack London Ubermennen instead of the earlier classic TO BUILD A FIRE. That Steve is a gifted pilot is true. But, and I mean no demeaning of his accomplishments, breaking speed, altitude and endurance records is like holding the world hotdog eating championship.It does little to improve the cooking of hotdogs or their usual ( unless you grab the Hebrew Nationals)ingredients. If this comes out bad, the old legend of WW1 french flying ace Guynemer is appropro. " He flew so high he couldn't get back down."

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#104804 - 09/06/07 11:52 AM Re: VFR Preparation Recommendations [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Then there's the saying, "There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.". E. Hamilton Lee, 1949

I know a number of pilots who have 5 digit flight hours totals. At a certain point it's just an endurance test. These guys have all had their share of emergencies and so far they've walked away from all of them. That's what makes old pilots, the ability to overcome the aircraft when it tries to kill you. We'll see, but if Fossett were able to make contact we'd have heard something.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#104805 - 09/06/07 12:49 PM Re: VFR Preparation Recommendations [Re: JCWohlschlag]
thseng Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 900
Loc: NW NJ
"Today a 747 taxied over a parked and tied down Cessna 172, demolishing it. Under repeated questioning the airport official reluctantly admitted to our reporter that the small aircraft had not, in fact, filed a flight plan."

A flight plan is not a plan for flight.
Say it with me!
A flight plan is not a plan for flight.
A flight plan is not a plan for flight.
A flight plan is not a plan for flight.

A flight plan is FAA Form 7233-1. It takes up 1/2 of a page. The other half of the page is for a "Military stopover" and ironically the second page is reserved exclusively for the "Paperwork Reduction Act Statement"

This form is the official equivalent of telling your wife "Here's where and when I'm leaving from, here's where I'm going and when I should get there. Please send them looking for me if I don't arrive." ETS'ers know they should give a responsible person this same information anytime they go hiking, flying, whatever.

Obviously Steve did this also because now they are looking for him. They don't have a route to check because he was just flying "around" the local area.
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- Tom S.

"Never trust and engineer who doesn't carry a pocketknife."

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#104809 - 09/06/07 01:16 PM Re: VFR Preparation Recommendations [Re: JCWohlschlag]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: JCWohlschlag
. . . What, other than a properly packed survival kit and a PLB, do you guys think is proper “preparation” for GA VFR aircraft?
Check the weather to ensure you really have VFR flight conditions (apparently it was). Check the plane to make sure it's safe (apparently it was). Make sure someone will notice that you don't get back, they did. I have no problem with his flight preps other than him leaving his Sat-phone behind.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#104812 - 09/06/07 01:41 PM Re: about that Breitling [Re: JCWohlschlag]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Breitling Professional Emergency looks like a great watch, but note that it only transmits on 121.5 MHz. It's not a PLB. It's a great tool if someone is listening, but it does have limitations. Considering capabilities, I'd spend the money on a PLB and wear a Casio G-Shock for time.

Sir Richard Branson always makes a big deal mentioning this watch as though it alone will save the day. It's not a 406 MHz PLB. According to this article, the Breitling has registered signal.
Quote:
"They're registered to us personally, so they know it's you,"
How is the signal encoded. The watch may be registered, but I doubt the signal carries that data. Anybody? Doug? Any more info about this signal? I have my doubts.


Edited by RAS (09/06/07 01:53 PM)
Edit Reason: more info

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#104818 - 09/06/07 02:35 PM Re: Steve Fossett SAR [Re: Doug_Ritter]
xbanker Offline
Addict

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 484
Loc: Anthem, AZ USA
Originally Posted By: Doug_Ritter
Finally, one must never take anything in the media during an incident at face value. Always keep that in mind.

AP, Sept. 5: "Fossett always wears a Breitling Emergency wristwatch ... said Granger Whitelaw, a fellow pilot...."

CBS, Sept. 6: "Some people were holding out hope that Fossett was wearing a satellite wristwatch he received from British tycoon Sir Richard Branson, but it turns out he did not have it."

* * * * *

"Authorities said at one point they thought they had spotted Fossett's plane and sent in a helicopter crew to confirm. "We thought we had it nailed," Nevada Civil Air Patrol Maj. Cynthia Ryan told reporters late Wednesday. "Unfortunately, it turned out to be one of many dozen unmapped wreck sites from previous years." I wonder...general aviation? Or maybe remnants of past military training in the area, e.g. aviation cadets during WWII?
_________________________
"Things that have never happened before happen all the time." — Scott Sagan, The Limits of Safety

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#104820 - 09/06/07 03:01 PM Re: Steve Fossett SAR [Re: xbanker]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
So what we're learning is that Steve may have had a week's worth of food, water and other supplies but that he left his personal satellite phone and he wasn't wearing his Breitling.

You know, leaving emergency equipment behind when going on a solo flight in unpopulated rugged mountainous/desert terrain is not something I expect from a meticulous planner and experienced aviator. Experience tells us that bad things happen at the worst possible time. We'd better have all bases covered because we don't get to choose when or where it strikes.
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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