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#101491 - 08/03/07 06:34 PM Re: Window Punch and Seatbelt cutter - revisited [Re: Equipped4Chicago]
JCWohlschlag Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Sterling, Virginia, United Sta...
The best auto escape tool I've seen so far was the Benchmade 10105 ERT-1 that was reviewed by Doug at SHOT Show 2007. It seems that it is one of the most versatile automobile escape tools made, including an LED light (that is conveniently aimed at the cutting blade), a spring-loaded window punch (which many believe to be superior to manual pointy-metal punches), and a folding/locking safety blade.

The only question I have is how to best store one of these (or any rescue tool like it) in your vehicle so you're sure you can reach it in an accident. The ERT-1 comes with a pocket clip, which is fine if you put it in your pocket, but I'd be afraid of it flying around in your car if clipped anywhere in your car. (Even a 3.6-ounce knife would hurt like hell when moving at 60 mph.) It also comes with a nylon sheath that can be mounted somewhere in your vehicle, and as long as the sheath is securely mounted, the knife should remain secure in the sheath until the moment you need it.

There's also always the option of sticking the ERT-1 in the glove box or center console compartments, but I prefer to avoid those locations for fear of the compartment being jammed shut or inaccessible after a collision.
_________________________
“Hiking is just walking where it’s okay to pee. Sometimes old people hike by mistake.” — Demitri Martin

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#101498 - 08/03/07 07:50 PM Re: Window Punch and Seatbelt cutter - revisited [Re: JCWohlschlag]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Most modern cars have electrical window winders. So forget about trying to open a window. You also have the problem of the door and the car body distorting under the impact. Which what they are supposed to do. Cars are designed to protect the occupants from impact. They do that by transmitting the kinetic forces around the passenger compartment. Most of that protection is intended to protect from an impact to the front of the vehicle. Followed up by an impact to the rear. There is a degree of protection from side impacts. Although it is marginal at best. Forget about overhead protection. It is limited to protecting the occupants in the event of the vehicle going divergent in two axis.
What all of that means is that unless you get the door open before you enter the water, as you would for a light aircraft ditching, you are unlikely to escape. A 60ft drop is probably unsurvivable unless you impact right side up and as flat to the surface of the water as possible. That probably won't happen. The very best that anyone can hope for in a situation like the one in America is that death comes as swiftly and painlessly as possible.
_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#101503 - 08/03/07 08:25 PM Re: Window Punch and Seatbelt cutter - revisited [Re: JohnN]
frostbite Offline
Member

Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 148
Loc: TN
JohnN:

I easily imagined cutting it, but I pictured a "plastic wrap" effect from the water pressure pushing the top in. I did rethink it and decided the zippers around the windows would let in water which would equalize the pressure and also that the top might simply get ripped off or torn, maybe creating an easy exit.

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#101507 - 08/03/07 09:08 PM Re: Window Punch and Seatbelt cutter - revisited [Re: frostbite]
JohnN Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/10/01
Posts: 966
Loc: Seattle, WA

I imagined a plastic wrap effect as well. I think it would be analogous to being hit over the head, then throw into the water in a tied canvas bag in the pitch dark.

-john

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#101612 - 08/04/07 10:17 PM Re: Window Punch and Seatbelt cutter - revisited [Re: Susan]
jewski Offline
stranger

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 4
Originally Posted By: Susan
Re: laminated side windows

This is totally outside my experience...

Laminated glass is two sheets of tempered glass with a flexible sheet of plastic between them, right? So, if you were in a situation (not necessarily under water)where you needed to break your way out of it (side window) and had a spring-loaded punch, couldn't you break the glass, then kick it to beat it up more, and sort of force-fold it out of the way so you could get past it?

Sue

I think most laminated glass is at least three layers of glass.

For what it is worth, I haven't broken any laminated side glass, but I have broken some laminated windshields (scrap yard vehicles). It takes me about a dozen hits with a tire iron to make a fist-sized opening. I would think it would take many repeated blows to create cracks horizontally across piece of laminated glass so that it could fold and be pushed out (if it is possible at all). Not to mention the shards being VERY sharp.

I definitely would not count on being able to do it in a few seconds.

Here's a huge (16MB+) .pdf study on laminated and "glazing" glass: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/PDF/nrd-11/glazingreport.pdf

Basically it says that it helps keep people not wearing seat belts from being thrown from cars, but increases head injuries compared to tempered safety glass and really isn't worth consideration with technology like side curtain airbags.

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#101636 - 08/05/07 12:40 AM Re: Window Punch and Seatbelt cutter - revisited [Re: jewski]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Veering off the topic a bit.... if I happened to win the lottery and could buy a new vehicle, could I order it with manual winder windows instead of electric ones? Do they still know how to make them?

Veering back on topic: what about those electric door LOCKS they've got now? Can't open the windows, can't get the doors open... All these features are supposed to be for our benefit, right?

Sue

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#101642 - 08/05/07 12:57 AM Re: Window Punch and Seatbelt cutter - revisited [Re: Susan]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
The electric window motors and locks will still work when under water, remember the water doesn't conduct its the impurities in water and compared to the wiring to the motor, its not a very good conductor.
However in the mythbusters test they found that while the window motors worked fine, they couldn't roll down the window due to the pressure of the water, even with the manual windows.
All the vehicles I've seen with electric locks they still have a manual lock on the door somewhere, so you should still be able to unlock and escape.
I've also noticed that the newer cars with the laminated windows the window track is no longer inside the door. Used to be the door frame was a U shape and the track sat inside it, now its more of an L with the other side being nothing but the track so it should be easier to push the whole window out, but that would still require the inside to be full of water to equalize the pressure.
Maybe the new side air bags should have a smaller explosive charge to break the window when the airbag deploys.

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#101662 - 08/05/07 02:52 AM Re: Window Punch and Seatbelt cutter - revisited [Re: MDinana]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: MDinana
Originally Posted By: frostbite
Reading all this made me realize: Convertible cars/trucks don't have a chance underwater, do they? The passengers would find the top flattened down on them in an instant.


OK, I'm scratching my head on this. Really, if the roof of a convertible "collapsed," wouldn't that be just some cloth bumping your head? Just cut it open (yeah, it's tough cloth, but softer than steel).


The framework could easily trap or entangle you.

Jeff

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#101690 - 08/05/07 04:15 PM Re: Window Punch and Seatbelt cutter - revisited [Re: Susan]
Jeff_M Offline
Addict

Registered: 07/18/07
Posts: 665
Loc: Northwest Florida
Originally Posted By: Susan
Veering back on topic: what about those electric door LOCKS they've got now? Can't open the windows, can't get the doors open... All these features are supposed to be for our benefit, right? Sue


Surprisingly, electric windows and door locks often continue to work for some time after immersion.

Jeff

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#101810 - 08/06/07 07:37 PM Re: Window Punch and Seatbelt cutter - revisited [Re: Evan]
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
While I have not needed to use it to date, I have a RESQME zip-tied to the pocket zipper of my rescue PFD. I figure if I am on a working water rescue and need quick entry into the vehicle, having the window punch and seatbelt cutter close at hand might save some valuable time.

Pete

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