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#112981 - 11/19/07 08:38 PM Bugout back for longterm use
NIM Offline

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 128
Hi all,

Two years ago I made a last resort kit. It was designed to allow myself (and friends) to flee to the remote areas of Canada to survive in the "wild" for a minimum of 10 years. (assuming we avoid freezing/starving to death).

This contingency was planned to allow a military grade plague to completely burn out as a fink of a friend sent me some links on the murders of microbiologists around the world. In short, this isn't a high probability for me, but it was fun to plan for.

I have done several updates to the kit that haven't reflected my 2005 list and I hope to have them up in the new year. For those of you who would like to critique what I had two years ago I have attempted to convert the word document to a webpage. If I have done it correctly it can be viewed at:

From my tests it is a very ugly webpage (my first so be kind) and some images did not get converted. All text should be viewable though.

I'd like to know what you personally would add or remove (or any suggestions)
After that I can learn how to make a REAL webpage and post the improvements.

Hope you enjoy.


#113013 - 11/20/07 12:25 AM Re: Bugout back for longterm use [Re: NIM]
teacher Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 910
Nice kit -- ten years?

Long term survival involves some very different considerations; long term nutrition (food and vitimans) growing older (perscrips and glasses) and just plain stuff wearing out.

<One example: water filtration. How do you 'treat" 100-200 galons easily?)

Another consideration is knowledge/ information. Consider 3-4 books; medicine, foraging, primitive skills, etc.


#113019 - 11/20/07 12:55 AM Re: Bugout back for longterm use [Re: teacher]
NIM Offline

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 128
I've spent (much to my wife's current dismay) over ten grand on various survival schools etc. I'm hoping some of it "took" smile

I'll have to hunt my food down and replace everything with natural materials. Anything I bring in is just a perk that will eventually wear out or be lost.

That katadyn filter should last long enough that I'll be 70+ before I require a new element. (I do have an extra one cached). I'm not even sure I'll bring the filter. Honestly, it is mostly good for removing radioactive particles. In my region the water is clean enough that you can drink directly from the lakes with boiling

If I do need perscrips I plan on learning the appropriate herbal remedies (if any). My literature has been upgraded in my new kit to include common herbal remedies and has the entire Peterson's guide compressed (and readable) to 11 pages print on write in the rain paper on a color laser printer (magnifying glass for later years). Most of it is memorized but I know I'd like a cheat sheet for any real world tests...even to just calm my nerves. For the same reason I have basic survival and 1st aid printed in like manner.

The only thing I've noticed is that medical support is almost totally limited to how the body heals itself when you have no hope of rescue. Bones must be "set" and there are no xrays etc.

I'm almost debating writing up a safety manual for the scenario. Besides hypothermia and starvation my major concern is human stupidity. Boiling water burns, knife cuts etc. Knife cuts will have to heal on their own. You can't stitch them or glue them closed as you risk greater infection (penetrating injury).
Better to avoid injury by safe work practices.

I have some stockpiles of medical supplies (vet grade meds and a last ditch pulser/zapper). Realistically, the body will have to heal itself. I carry prayer with me as well (it didn't show up in the photo smile

Good ideas Teacher! If you have any thoughts please fire them away. Even if we have to branch into other topics. There is such knowledge on this forum that I love the feedback/thoughts/constructive criticism.


#113021 - 11/20/07 01:18 AM Re: Bugout back for longterm use [Re: NIM]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078

If you plan on going primitive for your long term survival plan then the addition of a good axe, such as a Swedish Gransfor, should be included in your kit. You might want to include a betalight as well to give low level lighting (should last about ten years). Some titanium arrow heads may also be useful. BTW the water bottle you have there looks interesting. Do you have any details. I think I remember Primus used to make a very high spec titanium fuel bottle. Is this the water bottle?

#113022 - 11/20/07 01:31 AM Re: Bugout back for longterm use [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
NIM Offline

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 128
The titanium water bottle is....WAS made by MSR. Sadly it is disco'd. You can find them on ebay for $150 +

You are right about the axe. It is on my xmas list for this year and if I don't get it I'm buying it. I chose the small woodsman axe (I think that was the model). I looked into the Betalights but the half life is twelve year I believe and I didn't want it to dim if I can't return (future generations). I opted for a new glow material that will glow for 24hrs on a 15 minute charge. Easily bright enough to read by until halfway through the night (based only on solar charging) after that you can use it for walking around the house. They should last for 10-20 years min.

Where do you get titanium arrow heads? That sounds great. Are they broadheads? Currently in Canada we can only use razor blades (although I plan on following none of the laws in an emergency).

Side note: Did you know that titanium sends off massive sparks when it hits quartzite? While digging a cache I almost had a heart attack when it happened to me. I had to do some research and test the titanium with a magnet before I was satisfied that I wasn't scammed with the crow bar:)

I really do endorse the titanium bottles. They don't leave any taste and you can boil water directly in them (more fuel efficient).

P.S. I love you guys! The good ideas keep coming!

#113046 - 11/20/07 03:54 AM Re: Bugout back for longterm use [Re: NIM]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
10 years... *sharpens the bubble popping needle*

Unless you are willing to become self sufficent, right now, I honestly don't think it is possible. Anything lasting 10 years is a radical TEOTOWAWKI-event, and that involves radical life style changes. You've got 47 pounds of stuff in your pack, if I read your website right- that is very marginal for what you are proposing. That would be ten years as a nomad, which means you summer in one location, and walk south starting in late summer.

The running away and playing Robinson Crusoe theory just doesn't work well. There are places were there aren't many people- they don't have many people for a reason. You are talking of heading off to the wilds of Canada, I assume inland due to the lack of a boat. Look at the historical tribal locations- people either stayed at the sea, or headed south for the winter. The places where it could be done with a reasonable degree of success are already crawling with people.

Great dream, but *pokes your dream bubble with the needle* nothing more. You've got a lot of money spent on classes- have you been practicing what you learned? Can you do a month, in winter, with what you've learned? Don't think in terms of theory, but have you actually done it.

But here is the real kicker. I'll take your scenario of a bioweapon release and run with it. When you come back, and you eventually will unless you die first, the survivors will have a resistance to it. You won't. If there are any sources of infection, like the survivors, you'll probably be up a certain creak without a canoe.

Oh, and your webpage needs some major help. I had to open the source to get half of it. MS Office makes poop out of HTML- Google "HTML Tutorial" and pick one. Then use notepad, or a replacement text editor like notepad++ or ConText. You'll have something the is much more friendly to look at. Either that, or export everything out as a PDF and post that.

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

#113059 - 11/20/07 11:02 AM Re: Bugout back for longterm use [Re: ironraven]
TheSock Offline

Registered: 11/13/07
Posts: 471
Loc: London England
Living out of a pack for ten years sounds unrealistic. The indians had generations of experience passed on to them.
The good news is bio weapons don't work. The only recent attack the anthrax letters in 2001 killed less people than the attacker could have managed with a penknife in a crowd.
The Sock
The world is in haste and nears its end Wulfstan II Archbishop of York 1014.

#113062 - 11/20/07 11:31 AM Re: Bugout back for longterm use [Re: ironraven]
NIM Offline

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 128
PDF good call!

The tribes in my area did not go south for the winter. Nunavut didn't empty either if the history books are accurate. smile

I haven't done a full month in winter! I wish! If only work and the wife would be ok with it smile

Heck, I know it's a chance in hell! But if I'm feeling lucky ....

Ya, I honestly don't figure that a return to civilization will be possible. From the bugs I've heard about some of the nastier ones use spores or are like morgellons.

I will really have to clean the page up. I wasn't sure if it looked correct as I'm using a Mac.

Thanks IronRaven!

#113063 - 11/20/07 11:38 AM Re: Bugout back for longterm use [Re: TheSock]
NIM Offline

Registered: 02/12/03
Posts: 128
Bioweapons don't work? Crap, MOD must have wasted billions!

The anthrax wasn't in the air though, at least give me that.

Your're right AIDS isn't really killing enough people and the small pox blankets we gave to the indians likely weren't the cause of them getting that funky rash and dying smile

(tease enclosed)

We don't even need biowarfare...the pack is just as useful for a zombie apocalypse!


#113066 - 11/20/07 01:03 PM Re: Bugout back for longterm use [Re: NIM]
Blast Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3561
Loc: Spring, Texas

What are your plans for bug repellant? Mosquitos can drive a person nuts.

Blogging the Borderlands
Wild Edibles Blog
I miss OBG.

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