Since Martin closed the Ramboism thread before I got home from work, I had to start a new thread just to say something.

I was surprised (well, really rather shocked) at the rather spiteful attack on DOGSOFWAR.

Excuse me? You didn't get his point? Why on earth NOT??? Was it because it didn't fit in with your little fantasies?

I've been on this board for several years now, and have read a lot of posts with both wonder, snickers and total disbelief. While many of the people here are truly interested in wanting to be able to deal with unexpected situations, for others it appears to be a continuation of Dungeons & Dragons.

And then here comes a guy who tries to point out something that seems to have escaped the notice of some members: that long-term bugging out (or anything similar) is a real PITA.

We constantly have people here talking about literal bugging out and living off the land. And if you don't mind my saying so (but I know you will), that's just a bunch of crap. Really. Oh, you might be able to do it for a couple of weeks, tops, but that's it. This isn't the Old West of the 1850s. Some people can't get past the fact that right this very minute, there are 303,283,474 people in the U.S. OVER THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE.

Let's do a little basic math: We've got 300 million people (as a round number), and the whole country goes to Hades. We've got about 9 million acres covered by the National Wilderness Preservation System, and most of the rest is in private ownership. If we assume that half of our population kills the other half and cuts the numbers down to 150 million, that's 16 people hunkered down in every wilderness acre.

Do you see any flaws here, yet?

Now let's talk about water for a long-term problem. How much drinking water can you carry? Plan on bathing? Washing dishes? Exactly how much AquaPure do you have? Enough for a family of four for five years? If you've planted a garden for food, how do you water it if Mother Nature doesn't oblige with an inch a week at regular intervals?

And of course, there's the food problem. Most of our food is grown in certain places with subsidized water (AZ, CA, etc), subsidized operating money, and then shipped long distances. No one in that chain is going to be working for free. No fuel? No food! So, how much food are you taking with you, to share with the other 15 people on your wilderness acre?

And then there's the fuel problem. There aren't endless sources of gasoline, diesl, natural gas, propane, Coleman fuel or charcoal briquets. One-half million pioneers decimated a swath of wood sources in just a few years. And we won't have the luxury of dry buffalo patties for fuel.

Medical care evaporates. Of course, that will cut down the 15 people per acre somewhat. We'll lose all the diabetics within two weeks, all the people with transplanted parts, all the people dependent on continuous medication, and most of the victims of violence due to current conditions. And naturally, waste management will be practically non-existent, and dysentery alone will cut down on some numbers. How much Immodium are you carrying?

If the SHTF on any kind of major level, the lifestyle of America will make a rapid drop to the days of Cro Magnon man, but without the knowledge they had.

DOGSOFWAR knew what he was talking about. Maybe you should have been paying closer attention.

Sorry, Martin, but I had to say it or I was going to explode with wrath. Now you can delete it.

Sue