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#183362 - 09/27/09 10:14 PM Do you know why you are evacuating work?
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
People's responses to Martin's "what would you do" posts coupled with me just finishing 102 Minutes: The Untold Story of the Fight to Survive Inside the Twin Towers has got me thinking. I'm not sure what it is like at all y'alls places of work, but we rarely know why the fire alarm has gone off until well after we get the all-clear signal to return to work. A similar thing occurred in the Twin Towers. Surprisingly few people realized that a plane hit the first building and even fewer knew planes hit both. Reading that book, I was stunned at how little information/communication was available to the people in the buildings. This caused a lot of delay in the evacuations, leading to loss of life.

So what is my point? I'm not sure other than wondering if everyone really grabs their gear everytime there's an evacuation. When you are heading for the exit do you know why?

-Blast
_________________________
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#183365 - 09/27/09 10:55 PM Re: Do you know why you are evacuating work? [Re: ]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Much like those "weekly" Alerts on TeeVee that numb you into automatically ignoring them. If the boy cries wolf too often no one believes him.

As for the question at hand, yes, (assuming I'm working outside the home office) I get my stuff and take my truck home at the first whiff of an issue. What I do is important for scheduled ops, but when an emergency strikes, unless I'm at GZ, I'm not needed -- I'm outta there.

While working at the Pentagon I learned that darned few of us are critical personnel (we all might think we are, but we're not) and if you aren't one of the few who are critical (hint: the critical few are wearing turn-out gear), get your stuff out of the way; make some spots available in the parking lot. Get clear so that if there really are casualties you aren't one of them. Secure your work stuff, grab your backpack and take an early long lunch, or better just go home. If you feel compelled to rubber-neck, do it from a distance upwind, or by switching to the local news at home. $.02
_________________________
Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#183369 - 09/27/09 11:33 PM Re: Do you know why you are evacuating work? [Re: Russ]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Usually the answer is, "Not a clue!"

The only times it is different is if the blue lights and gas sirens are going off instead of just the red lights and evacuation alarms.
When the gas sirens go off you need to be aware of the wind direction and which different muster points or refuge stations to head for.
You want to travel across the wind and not end up downwind of the gas.

Working underground was the same thing.

Evacuation means get out right away.
It does not mean you stand around wondering what just happened.

If a Hydrogen furnace blows up you are likely looking at a quarter mile radius of scorched earth.
If a vessel holding H2S lets go you have one of the most toxic hazards you can imagine.

After I am out of harm's way then I can be informed about why the alarms went off.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#183372 - 09/27/09 11:54 PM Re: Do you know why you are evacuating work? [Re: Blast]
Am_Fear_Liath_Mor Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 3078
Precise information about events as they proceeded throughout the day such as the attacks on the World Trade Centre is bound to be garbled and sketchy after they have happened making information difficult to assess so as to create an evacuation plan or prompt the decision to bug out, but what I still cannot fathom about that day is the garbled and sketchy but soon to be very accurate news reports reporting events before they actually happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNK1V6S2cbo

Now this could be useful in a Dr Who sort of way in getting future event information in order to make the decision to evacuate.



Edited by Am_Fear_Liath_Mor (09/27/09 11:56 PM)

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#183374 - 09/28/09 12:02 AM Re: Do you know why you are evacuating work? [Re: Am_Fear_Liath_Mor]
Dagny Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/25/08
Posts: 1918
Loc: Washington, DC

I've always lived near work so primarily make sure I take a coat if it's not summer and keys and those are in my purse.

Since the anthrax attacks, I never go far without my purse.

"102 Minutes" was a riveting book. Yes, those of us watching TV knew a lot more about what was going on than a lot of people in the buildings.

Easy to get complacent.







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#183376 - 09/28/09 12:22 AM Re: Do you know why you are evacuating work? [Re: Dagny]
2005RedTJ Offline
Addict

Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 475
Loc: Birmingham, Alabama
I have a good deal of insight into this, as I'm one of those fire alarm guys. I've been to buildings where the management was specifically notified weeks in advance that we'd be there on a certain day to test the fire alarm system. Unbeknownst to us, they didn't bother to notify anyone. Some people ran for it when the alarm went off, others didn't even notice.

We were in a NFPA 72 training class at a hotel in Atlanta last year and the fire alarm went off in the building. A roomful (maybe 200 or so) of fire alarm installers, designers, technicians, fire marshals, etc... just sat there. I got the heck out, maybe 3 other guys went outside with me. I'd rather get out and find out it was a false alarm or drill, than be wrong any day.

The first day of the class, the hotel had a glass fire exit door locked right outside the conference room where the class was being taught. I told the manager of the hotel who didn't want to unlock it, that if the door wasn't unlocked (as per the fire code) that I'd throw a chair through it. Between a local fire marshal and myself, he got the point and unlocked it.

The main thing in an emergency situation, whether real or false alarm, is to have a flashlight and know your way out of the area. Preferably more than one way out, too, in case your primary exit is blocked or impassable.

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#183377 - 09/28/09 12:45 AM Re: Do you know why you are evacuating work? [Re: 2005RedTJ]
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2995
We get the drills in our building, everyone walks outside then the rude smokers light up and I get a nice headache for the rest of the day from the poison. Then one day there was a bomb threat and they didn't alarm but locked the gates outside so people panicked and just drove through the grass around the gates.
I already have a distrust for those in charge anyway after my wife's law firm refused to dismiss the staff while secretly evacuating the lawyers on 9/11/2001.

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#183378 - 09/28/09 01:21 AM Re: Do you know why you are evacuating work? [Re: Eugene]
Lono Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 10/19/06
Posts: 1013
Loc: Pacific NW, USA
I'm a floor captain at work, which is a glorified term that means I leave after I've swept half a floor for people who won't leave when the alarm sounds. People are pretty predictable - 95% move out quickly, then a handful choose to ignore and stay answering email, tinkering with computer hardware, occasionally talking on a conference call. I note their room numbers and they get reported to their managers and to security / fire responders, but no consequences afaik. I would leave immediately if I didn't have to do the fire warden thing, I've seen how fast a fire can do its business.

Boeing has a really good evacuation plan - they operate immense airplane factories, where an alarm could go off in Sector AA-25, and if they evacuated the entire plant for every call then productivity could be crushed, thousands of man hours lost. They localize their evacuations, and step up their fire fighting response. They also do something pretty cool with their fire wardens - they train the entire employee base to react, meaning if you hear an alarm the closest employee grabs the area check list and sweeps people out; everyone is a floor warden, or everyone who wants to take the responsibility. In practice its still the guy who volunteers for the duty, but if they're not there then everyone else is nominally prepared to sweep the area and report to responders. That makes sense to me, I've been out of the office during two actual fire emergencies in two different buildings, and no one was there to do the fire warden job.

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#183396 - 09/28/09 02:47 AM Re: Do you know why you are evacuating work? [Re: Lono]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
How many people were in the WTC on 9/11?

How many of those people were considered merely cattle by their management?

There's not much you can do if you don't know something is wrong, but those who ignore warnings and fire alarms are just plain stupid.

On 9/11, there wasn't even proper communication between the EMERGENCY services, and I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that hasn't changed much.

People just have to take responsibility for themselves. Why would anyone hear alarms/shots/explosions and then ask other people if they should evacuate? Are people so incredibly dumb that they need to be told? If their supervisor told them to go back to work, I wonder what percentage would do just that?

I know the owner/mods here don't like the S-word in relation to people, but sometimes it's the only appropriate description.

Sue

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#183405 - 09/28/09 10:58 AM Re: Do you know why you are evacuating work? [Re: Lono]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Originally Posted By: Lono
I'm a floor captain at work, which is a glorified term that means I leave after I've swept half a floor for people who won't leave when the alarm sounds. People are pretty predictable - 95% move out quickly, then a handful choose to ignore and stay answering email, tinkering with computer hardware, occasionally talking on a conference call. I note their room numbers and they get reported to their managers and to security / fire responders, but no consequences afaik. I would leave immediately if I didn't have to do the fire warden thing, I've seen how fast a fire can do its business.

Boeing has a really good evacuation plan - they operate immense airplane factories, where an alarm could go off in Sector AA-25, and if they evacuated the entire plant for every call then productivity could be crushed, thousands of man hours lost. They localize their evacuations, and step up their fire fighting response. They also do something pretty cool with their fire wardens - they train the entire employee base to react, meaning if you hear an alarm the closest employee grabs the area check list and sweeps people out; everyone is a floor warden, or everyone who wants to take the responsibility. In practice its still the guy who volunteers for the duty, but if they're not there then everyone else is nominally prepared to sweep the area and report to responders. That makes sense to me, I've been out of the office during two actual fire emergencies in two different buildings, and no one was there to do the fire warden job.


Tell them "Fire, get out now!"
If they ignore you, walk around their desk and yank the power lead to their P.C. then Tell them "Out. Now."

Knowing why there is an alarm could be useful, if only so one can decide which direction to run away in.

I personally think that the fastest way to get killed is to sit and wait for orders. If some idiot is wittering that you "Have got to wait for orders/instructions, have to wait until you are told" and you think that there is IMMEDIATE danger, ignore them or if necessary go OVER them.

There are exceptions to that, like evacuation from a train/boat/tunnel where moving may cause more trouble than staying put.


_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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