Last I knew, we are here as individuals, not as Governments.

Let's view each other that way and not as some corporal manifestation of our peculiar view of a government.

Every government does things in the name of its country or citizens that disgust or shame its decent citizens.

Some governments do things that its decent citizens are proud of. Perhaps many, although certainly not most.

Politics - ptuuii!!! One is most likely to find some "politicians" eager to do "the right thing for the right reason" at the immediate local level IF the local level is in a fairly narrow population range - say, the 25,000 to 50,000 range, very roughly. It appears to me that the ratio of the righteous to the non-righteous (don't read anything religious into that terminology) declines rapidly as one rises to county, state, and national level. I believe that IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT NATION - HUMAN NATURE IS HUMAN NATURE. In the USA, I have observed that the state level is often a battleground of the do-gooders (minority) and the rest. I don't even want to comment on county politics. Does anyone claim that THEIR nations POLITICIANS are collectively superior to anyone elses?

There are some decent folks practicing politics at the national level in many countries. However, a famous statement about it being easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle than... well, you get the idea.

Some of my countrymen disgust me. Others humble me by their actions and deeds. If I am to be lumped in with everyone else in my country and judged, I'd prefer to be grouped with the later. It's trivial to find pigs in the muck - that's where one finds pigs. Raise your field of view if all you see is muck and pigs...

I have read history books written by and for persons not American. Canadian, British, French, Russian, some German, and a smidge of Chinese (translated). The only common theme is that they almost exclusively reflect the extremely narrow view of the author(s) culture and country. I have known/do know some published "Academic" historians and I have noticed that often their products are a result of finding rationale to fit their pre-determined outcome. "Bad science" if that means anything to folks. To assume that one has an accurate picture of an event from reading one or two accounts is at best naiive.

Most of the anecdotal "history lessons" here are crap, no matter who wrote what. It takes many views to get a whole picture and that is elusive for me most of the time - even when I try. I'll take any one or three accounts with a healthy dose of salt.

Even first-hand accounts that are purely an accounting of what happened do not paint a multi-dimensional "whole truth" picture. I speak from reading those sorts of things in the past and, oddly enough, reading others accounts of an event or two that I was a first-hand participant in.

If you wish to understand a nations point of view, you must first understand those people and their culture. And a whole lot more - this is wearisome. Grow up, lads.

I'll close with this: I have been "embeded" in groups of ordinary citizens of three major European nations who 1) knew I was an American and 2) assumed (incorrectly) that I did not understand their language. (We have members from all three countries here in ETS.) Folks from two of those three nations ought to be deeply ashamed of the things that many of their countrymen said. DEEPLY ashamed. But - no one here was one of those folks (as far as I know).

Not all Americans are like _________________ (fill in your prejudice). Not all ________ or _________ (I refrain) are like the jerks I quietly listened to...

Let's drop all this stupid name-calling and nation-bashing here, please. Some of this behavior is embarassing - and I don't just mean some of the American behavior. You guys have more to offer each other and the rest of us than that, right? That's what I am here for.

Tom