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#166938 - 02/11/09 11:44 PM Satellites destroyed,no sat phone,GPS,spot,PLB's
falcon5000 Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 662
Thought that would get your attention.

But today Two big communications satellites collided in the first-ever crash of two intact spacecraft in orbit, shooting out a pair of massive debris clouds and posing a slight risk to the international space station.

I wonder how secure we've felt with all of our little electronic devices to get us out of harms way (cell phone, sat phones, plb's, epirbs, spot,gps etc..)when something as simple as a solar flare, tin whiskers, or a dead soviet or Chinese satellite ramming into one of, or a series of critical communications or navigation satellites render them useless.I'm not much of a Ham operator as I know we have quite the numbers here but it kind of reinforces the use of a dying bread of land communications.

I've spent over a decade putting people, and objects into space (some good,some bad) and I know how fragile the systems are and how easily they can fail, it's a nature of weight VS cost. This is a reminder that sometimes the old ways should always be kept as a backup in case, compasses, maps, 2 way radios, any equipment that you may need to survive a long wait for a rescue. Sometimes the weight of a good bivy or small tent and a good quality down or synthetic bag and a stainless steel pot or cup and some fire starting flint can go a long way if it's going to be a while getting rescued or what have you. Just a thought....................

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090211/ap_on_sc/satellite_collision

2 big satellites collide 500 miles over Siberia

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. – Two big communications satellites collided in the first-ever crash of two intact spacecraft in orbit, shooting out a pair of massive debris clouds and posing a slight risk to the international space station.

NASA said it will take weeks to determine the full magnitude of the crash, which occurred nearly 500 miles over Siberia on Tuesday.

The collision involved an Iridium commercial satellite, which was launched in 1997, and a Russian satellite launched in 1993 and believed to be nonfunctioning. The Russian satellite was out of control, Matney said.

The Iridium craft weighed 1,235 pounds, and the Russian craft nearly a ton.

No one has any idea yet how many pieces were generated or how big they might be.

As for pieces the size of micrometers, the count will likely be in the thousands, he added.
_________________________
Failure is not an option!
USMC Jungle Environmental Survival Training PI 1985

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#166942 - 02/12/09 12:46 AM Re: Satellites destroyed,no sat phone,GPS,spot,PLB's [Re: falcon5000]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Yes, the higher the level of the technology the more fragile it is.

Also the more tightly controlled a system is the more brittle it becomes.

If you assume 100% reliability for an item with one moving part a system with two parts is only 1/4 as reliable.

(Now the fact that both satellites were obsolete it makes me wonder if this was not a test to see if they could be collided, especially when I consider how unlikely such a collision is by pure chance)
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May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#166948 - 02/12/09 03:09 AM Re: Satellites destroyed,no sat phone,GPS,spot,PLB's [Re: scafool]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
The Russian bird was dead, but the Iridium was still functioning until it turned into roadkill.

Loosing the communications and navigation satellites is one of my personal fears. Way too much is too dependent on them these days.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#166951 - 02/12/09 04:06 AM Re: Satellites destroyed,no sat phone,GPS,spot,PLB's [Re: ironraven]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
I've got Doug's snail mail. My only fear is another Postal increase. I've lost count of the old 1 cent stamps I've used superglue on to make current postage.

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#166956 - 02/12/09 07:49 AM Re: Satellites destroyed,no sat phone,GPS,spot,PLB's [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
frediver Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 215
Loc: N.Cal.
I wonder who at Space Command is looking for a new job now?
Space Command I thought had ALL orbits tracked?
I find it difficult to believe this was an accident.
I thought that the Iridium service had difficulties in the past, I wonder if a Lloyd's Policy is involved?
Maybe my foil hat is to tight!

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#166957 - 02/12/09 10:24 AM Re: Satellites destroyed,no sat phone,GPS,spot,PLB's [Re: frediver]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
I wouldn't lose any sleep over that. Humanity survived pretty well for many thousands of years without a single satellite. If it means no sat phone coverage, I don't care one bit. If it means no GPS, oh well, $200 wasted but I can easily go back to map & compass. And if it means no TV coverage, I'll be actually happy about that - less crap to waste time on. smile

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#166958 - 02/12/09 10:31 AM Re: Satellites destroyed,no sat phone,GPS,spot,PLB [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
Grouch Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 395
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Chris Kavanaugh
I've got Doug's snail mail. My only fear is another Postal increase. I've lost count of the old 1 cent stamps I've used superglue on to make current postage.

"WASHINGTON — The Governors of the U.S. Postal Service have approved new prices for mailing services, including a 2-cent increase in the price of a First-Class Mail stamp to 44 cents. Prices for mailing services are reviewed annually and adjusted each May. The new prices will go into effect Monday, May 11."

http://www.usps.com/communications/newsroom/2009/pr09_018.htm

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#166959 - 02/12/09 12:14 PM Re: Satellites destroyed,no sat phone,GPS,spot,PLB [Re: Grouch]
harstad Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 71
Found this on the Iridium Wikipedia page.

Quote:
In-orbit spares
Spare satellites are usually held in a 667 kilometres (410 mi) storage orbit.[24] These will be boosted to the correct altitude and put into service in case of a satellite failure. Many satellites have failed over the years, the most recent being Iridium 28, which failed in July 2008.[25] Currently there appear to be seven spares in orbit, along with several partially failed satellites that are not in active service.[26] Five non-functional satellites have also reentered the Earth's atmosphere.[26]





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#166969 - 02/12/09 01:45 PM Re: Satellites destroyed,no sat phone,GPS,spot,PLB's [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
billvann Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
Any room left on the envelope for an address???
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Willie Vannerson
McHenry, IL

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#166971 - 02/12/09 02:19 PM Re: Satellites destroyed,no sat phone,GPS,spot,PLB [Re: billvann]
Grouch Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/02/08
Posts: 395
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: billvann
Any room left on the envelope for an address???

I don't know if it's true or not but I was told that the USPS could deliver mail using nothing more than the extended zip code [xxxxx-xxxx]. <shrug>

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