Anyone on the forum have specifics for using KnO4 Potassium Permanganate. For Water Purification, Antiseptic, Fire starter, etc? <br><br>What if any hazards to drinking water purified by this means?<br><br>Thanks<br>Ted Fisher

Tom, I must confess I don't know. I have a supply on order foim Bill's source. Ill let you know what I learn. Perhaps Doug knows more?

The best information I have seen for the use of KMnO4 comes from David Alloway's Book "Desert Survival Skills". He is the retailer of the Australian Mk III kit that has been reviewed by Doug. This is an excerpt from the sheet that Alloway sends with the kit...<br><br>There are several things you should know about the kit. The Condy’s Crystals are known in the US as potassium permanganate. Three of the crystals (each about the size of a grain of sugar) are mixed with a quart of water to make it potable. The small vial has enough crystals to purify 300 gallons of water. The water should be a pale pink in color. If more crystals are dissolved until the water turns red, the solution can be used as a topical antiseptic. Diluting more crystals to obtain a deep purple solution makes an external fungicide against athlete’s foot, jock itch, and ringworm. In addition, a small amount, about half the size of a dime, can be mixed with an equal amount of the crushed glucose tablet to start a fire. This can be done using the flint striker, a magnifying lens, friction (such as scraping the side of the knife blade across the mixture on a hard surface) or by adding glycerin from an advanced first aid kit or some brake fluids. BE CAREFUL WITH THIS PROCEDURE AND USE SMALL AMOUNTS OF THE MIXTURE. IGNITION WILL CREATE SPARKS UP TO A FOOT HIGH. DO NOT PRE-MIX WITH SUGAR AND STORE!<br><br>I have not tried any of these, yet.<br><br>

Warning…long discussion follows. Get a cup of Coffee first.<br><br><br>Potassium Permanganate (KMnO4) seems to have one of the desired attributes that make its inclusion in a PSK highly desirable. Many authors have cited multiple uses for Potassium Permanganate including: water purification, topical antiseptic/antifungal wash, fire starting, and signaling (snow dye). Like all other items that are selected for small PSK’s it is worthwhile to evaluate the efficacy of Potassium Permanganate for each of these reported uses. <br><br>Water Treatment<br>The primary role of Potassium Permanganate in a PSK seems to be as a water disinfectant. It has much greater storage stability than iodine or chlorine tablets and does not need special packaging within the kit. A common screw top plastic vial is suitable, as the chemical must only be protected from moisture and is readily available for use. It does not chemically degrade like iodine or chlorine tablets upon exposure to air. It does not sublime producing a very corrosive and staining gas and eat everything it touches in the kit. Very small amounts of Potassium Permanganate are also reported to be effective for water purification. This makes a small vial go a long way for water treatment.<br><br>However, the primary question is one of effectiveness against the water pathogens expected. The best source I have been able to find is the 1980 drinking water report from the Assembly of Life Sciences National Research Council. This report is long, but compares several methods of water treatment commonly used for municipal water systems. Potassium Permanganate is fairly commonly used in municipal treatment systems to kill algae and remove iron and manganese. It is not commonly used to kill pathogens, and is not considered effective for this large-scale use. <br><br>The first two links are to this report. The third link is to a much shorter review of various water treatment methods. <br><br>Drinking Water and Health <br>Volume 2 <br>SAFE DRINKING Water COMMITTEE <br>Board on Toxicology and Environmental Health Hazards <br>Assembly of Life Sciences National Research Council <br>NATIONAL ACADEMY PRESS Washington, D.C. 1980 <br>http://www.ulib.org/webRoot/Books/National_Academy_Press_Books/vol2_drinking_water/drinking2.htm<br><br>The actual chapter consisting of 110 pages of Scientific Review.<br>http://www.ulib.org/webRoot/Books/National_Academy_Press_Books/vol2_drinking_water/0000019.htm<br><br>Water Treatment FAQ Version 2.2 By Patton Turner <br>http://www.millennium-ark.net/News_Files/INFO_Files/Water_FAQs.html<br><br><br>AntiFungal/Antiseptic<br><br>Here it seems that Potassium Permanganate may have some utility. Making a moderately pink to red solution in water to treat fungal infections, wash hands, wash fruits and vegetables may have some utility. Trekking groups make reference to using KMnO4 solutions to treat locally procured produce. I could find no references that determined the value of such uses but what could it hurt. <br><br>Fire-Starting<br><br>Now here is a unique and fun use for this chemical. Mixed equally with sugar and sparked initiates violent oxidation of the sugar. According to David Alloway this reaction can also be initiated by friction with a knife or ground with a dry piece of wood. Potassium Permanganate simply mixed with glycerin also reacts to start a fire. Glycerin is a common constituent of brake fluid so this may be available in an aircraft or automobile accident. <br><br>Signaling<br><br>Using Potassium Permanganate to stain snow is a novel use. I can attest to the staining properties of very small amount of this chemical to bathroom grout. Fill your vials in the garage as the nearly invisible dust goes everywhere and the addition of water produces a very deep purple color. <br><br>Chemical Safety<br><br>KMnO4 is a strong oxidizer and the dry powder should not be allowed to make contact with the eyes or mucus membranes. Because the chemical is usually supplied as a fine powder, inhalation or contact with the eyes and mouth is possible. Solutions present much less risk.<br><br>My Opinion<br><br>I do not think that Potassium Permanganate is effective enough to be my primary water purification method. I carry iodine tablets (Potable Aqua, full-unopened bottle), and will fall back on KMnO4 if required with the understanding that it is probably not going to be very effective.<br><br>Treatment of fungal infections, washing wounds or food items does not seem to rank high on my likely use of this chemical. <br><br>I have used Potassium Permanganate and Glycerin to initiate fire in a lab setting. I do not carry glycerin and may not be able to locate it in an emergency, so I am going to practice the dry friction methods and sparking methods. I see some utility here even though I could probably prepare dry tinder and start a fire with the sparking device I carry without using KMnO4. Potassium Permanganate is an alternate to the 4 other fire-starting methods I carry (ferro rod, butane lighter, strike anywhere and LifeBoat matches along with some tinder). KMnO4 serves more as emergency tinder with some special reactive characteristics.<br><br>Visible and effective signals on snow may require more of this chemical than I am currently carrying. However it does produce an unusual color that contrasts well with snow, so this use does have practical value. The hardest part is to sprinkle the chemical lightly enough to produce a large signal.<br><br>So What<br><br>In an objective evaluation of the likely uses for my PSK shelter, fire and water are the 3 primary needs for which I carry multiple redundant devices. Potassium Permanganate makes the cut as an included item in my PSK as it serves as backup to my iodine treatment for water purification and as novel maybe useful fire-starting tinder. I carry two 0.5mL plastic cryovials one of KMnO4 and one of sugar. Violent oxidation of sugar is just too cool to not have as an option. It still comes down to the fun of building a PSK.<br><br>If you have read this far, thanks.<br>

Thanks for the information Randy!

Thanks for the info.<br><br>I too have tried KMnO4 and sugar + gylcerine. I did not get any sparks but a very violent (and HOT ) chemical reaction.There were no flames I could see & I couldn't light any tinder with it though.....<br>Now potassium permanganate + sugar + a few drops of spirit ( saw from a alcohol swab) & sparked does create a chemical reaction in which the sugar burns and gives a nice little flame.<br>Of course if you had an alcohol swab and a sparking device, you would spark the alcohol swab for tinder instead.<br>I could not generate enough friction to develop sparks ( didn't want to send KMnO4 and sugar crystals flying around my office) or maybe I just didn't try hard enough.<br><br>Anyway, it's a cool chemical reaction and fun to do, but not something I would rely on.( I already have lighter/sparklite/wind/waterproof matches/MFS + sparklite tinder) I always try to verify if the ideas here will work for me and unless I try it i wouldn't know and its not something I want to find out in a survival situation.<br><br>Have fun trying it when you can get your hands on some KMnO4 !( Please also wear goggle and gloves when trying this).

>>>I too have tried KMnO4 and sugar + gylcerine.<<<<br><br>It's KMnO4 + glycerine or KMnO4 + sugar, not all three together. I have seen KMnO4 + glycerine start a fire as a "magic Campfire" start. It really inpresses the crowd when you can start a fire without matches.<br><br>There's another technique that uses Iodine crystals, but I have never seen it work. <br><br>Crush 1 teaspoon of iodine crystals to a very fine powder, then mix with 2 teaspoons of powdered aluminium. Add water to produce a flame. It's highly reactive and must be ignited within 10 minutes. I wonder if it were possible to take aluminum scrapings, from plane wreckage for example, and mix with a crushed iodine (potable Aqua) tablet and get enough of a reation to light tinder?<br>

Excellant Thanks so much for all of your information.<br><br>Ted Fisher<br>Vermilion County Search and Rescue

I'm not too familiar with Potassium Permanganate. Where does one get this? I live in Canada. I don't know if that makes a difference or not, but perhaps there are other Canadians that know where to get it specifically in Canada.<br><br>

Ironbirdexplorer,<br><br>Do an advanced search on potassium permanganate in this forum for all posts. There are threads in Feb 2002 and Aug 2001 that discuss sources for KMnO4. Sears is one location, tropical fish stores another. Check these out in Canada or contact the specific site that Doug Ritter posted.<br><br>Note the cautions about use in drug manufacture, the low effectivness as a water purifier, and general chemical safety. These may be important in purchasing this chemical in Canada or importation from the US.<br><br>Good luck<br>Randy