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#198629 - 03/22/10 02:23 AM The tropics where even IV fluids grow on trees.
Art_in_FL Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2432
Coconut water with a bit of lime, and rum, medicinal use only, is okay but it's generally taken orally as a libation.

But what if you need IV fluids? According to this you can tap the coconuts:

Where I read about it recently:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2925/can-coconut-juice-be-used-as-blood-plasma-plus

An interesting PDF that gives detail information:
http://pinky.ratman.org/~drolley/PDF/inject%20some%20coconut.pdf

Mentioned in:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/25580924/Discussion-of-IV-Fluids

There are other references in the professional literature but, unfortunately, you need the subscribe or but each paper individually. It gets pricey to casually explore a subject.

So what do everyone think? I don't think coconut water would be my first choice of IV fluid. I would lean toward the plastic bags with the fancy labels as long as they last. But given a lack of other options, and a patient that will surely die otherwise, I might give it a go. Not everyone will, or needs to, see it that way. Discuss.

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#198664 - 03/22/10 04:53 PM Re: The tropics where even IV fluids grow on trees. [Re: Art_in_FL]
Woodsloafer Offline
Member

Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 122
Loc: Upstate NewYork
If you really need a "home made" blood volume expander, stick with sterilized sea water. The sodium chloride concentration is roughly equivilant to isotonic (normal) saline, i.e. 0.9%.

Please note I am not a medical doctor. I do know that other IV fluids such as dextram, non-normal saline etc. may cause problems depending on patient condition.
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#198665 - 03/22/10 05:25 PM Re: The tropics where even IV fluids grow on trees. [Re: Woodsloafer]
paramedicpete Offline
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Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Quote:
If you really need a "home made" blood volume expander, stick with sterilized sea water. The sodium chloride concentration is roughly equivilant to isotonic (normal) saline, i.e. 0.9%.


Do you have a reference for seawater being near isotonic? Everything I have read indicates seawater is significantly hypertonic (approx. 2.5%).

Pete

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#198666 - 03/22/10 06:28 PM Re: The tropics where even IV fluids grow on trees [Re: paramedicpete]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: paramedicpete
Do you have a reference for seawater being near isotonic?

Seawater is significantly hypertonic.

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#198668 - 03/22/10 06:55 PM Re: The tropics where even IV fluids grow on trees [Re: ]
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
They did that in WWII, using coconut as IV fluid.

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#198693 - 03/22/10 11:05 PM Re: The tropics where even IV fluids grow on trees [Re: Art_in_FL]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
After reading these links, looks like coconut water has been used with some success. I drink it myself as a cold beverage from time to time. Easily found at my local health food stores. Good source of electrolytes and potable water.

Hmmm, I wonder what the risk of infection from those cartons of coconut water would be if used as an IV straight from the box? I believe they are pasteurized. I know, that's not the same thing as saying something is "sterile" but we're talking worst case scenario here.

However, sounds like a rather odd situation to be--had the equipment to administer an IV but only coconut water available? Sounds like wartime, like maybe a Sarajevo scenario.

Another way to get this into your system might be the good ol' enema. Slower but safer than injecting it directly, if utmost speed isn't critical.

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#198696 - 03/22/10 11:11 PM Re: The tropics where even IV fluids grow on trees [Re: Arney]
jzmtl Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/18/10
Posts: 530
Loc: Montreal Canada
Pasteurized is safe to drink but not something I'd pump into my blood stream, bacteria is only inactivated but a small percent is still alive.

It is sterile while inside the coconut thou.

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#198706 - 03/22/10 11:37 PM Re: The tropics where even IV fluids grow on trees [Re: jzmtl]
UncleGoo Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 390
Loc: CT
I understand that Bear uses a coconut milk enema to replenish fluids...I'm not sure if he removes the milk from the coconut first, or not ;-)
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#198708 - 03/22/10 11:41 PM Re: The tropics where even IV fluids grow on trees [Re: jzmtl]
MIKEG Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 25
Loc: VA
Saline is sodium chloride in water, if it has glucose or any other additives it is no longer plain saline. You can get D5NS which is Dextrose 5% in Normal Saline (0.9% sodium chloride). Lots of different IV solutions out there which are indicated or contraindicated for some conditions/situations.

Sea/ocean water is significantly hypertonic, averaging 3.5%. Hypertonic saline has been used for treatment of patients in shock due to significant blood loss but I would not use it for dehydration and would look for a source of plain water. Hypertonic saline causes a shift of fluid from cellular and intracellular space to the circulatory system which is not desirable in dehydrated patients.

A way to get fluids into patients that can not tolerate fluids by mouth is rectally. Yes this is not an ideal means but is an option. Ideally you would have some delivery device such as tubing and a reservoir. The rectum is highly vascular and allows for rather quick absorption of medications and fluid. Not quite as fast as IV but faster than some other routes. Here is a short article on the use and success of rectal fluids, also referred to as proctoclysis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9601155

ETA: I would much quicker to put fluid that wasnt sterilized and purified in a lab type environment in the rectum vs. a vein. The rectum is more accustomed to dealing with bacteria moving through it than the circulatory system.


Edited by MIKEG (03/22/10 11:44 PM)
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#200449 - 04/18/10 11:17 PM Re: The tropics where even IV fluids grow on trees [Re: MIKEG]
CJK Offline
Addict

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 601
Loc: FL, USA
If the situation calls for IV and the ONLY recourse is coconut water....you have more to worry about than infection. Assuming you have the tubing to administer IV's, you probably have any left over bags (even if empty). Sterilizing H2O and administering is still infection risky...you need to 'refill' the bag-plenty of routes for infection. 20 something years in EMS....don't think I'd ever see a reason to 'use' coconut water. If it gets that bad....there is more to worry about than IV replenishment.

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