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#183197 - 09/25/09 09:56 PM Wasp stings and fireants
Tarzan Offline
Member

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 146
Loc: Washington
I recently had a discussion with my veterinarian concerning hymenoptera stings and the efficacy of using straight bleach on the sting site. He claims that this provides immediate sting relief as the base neutralizes the formic acid in the venom.
I am interested if anyone has had experience using this treatment for fireant stings in the South...
I will let you know how effective this treatment is on wasp stings, in my line of work at least one person from my crew gets stung daily.
If anyone gets a fire ant sting, i would appreciate any feedback to this treatment. It is supposed to be complete and immediate relief.

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#183200 - 09/25/09 10:08 PM Re: Wasp stings and fireants [Re: Tarzan]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Tarzan
...in my line of work at least one person from my crew gets stung daily...

Interesting home remedy. If your people are getting stung almost daily, aren't you running a high risk that someone is going to become sensitive to the wasp venom and have a bad reaction one of these days?

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#183201 - 09/25/09 10:31 PM Re: Wasp stings and fireants [Re: Arney]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
There is a lot more in the venom than just formic acid. It is not the acidity of the venom that causes the pain. Even if it was then adding chlorine bleach which is an acid should make it worse.

Household bleach and ammonia are both pretty harsh chemicals. Be sure to dilute them and remember to never mix the two.
Household bleach is strong enough to burn human skin. Don't put it on stings

Ammonia seems to be more effective than bleach and is the base for a lot of sting lotions.
The classic would be the "After Bite" dauber.
I am not sure but I think they use a solution of about 3% ammonia.

I will repeat this statement, Chlorine bleach will burn your skin if you are not careful to dilute it a lot. It is dangerous material.
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#183203 - 09/25/09 11:22 PM Re: Wasp stings and fireants [Re: scafool]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: scafool
Even if it was then adding chlorine bleach which is an acid should make it worse.

In the practical sense, bleach is actually highly alkaline, like around pH 11. While it's true that the active compound in bleach is hypochlorous acid, the bleach that we find in a bottle has sodium hydroxide added to it to make it highly alkaline. I posted on this topic a long time ago, but this is done to preserve the active ingredient in this highly alkaline state. Otherwise this highly reactive compound would break down and quickly become ineffective in storage.

Still, I agree that bleach isn't something to mess around with lightly.

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#183212 - 09/26/09 12:54 AM Re: Wasp stings and fireants [Re: Arney]
nursemike Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
To make the bleach and ammonia work, you would have to get it next to the hymenoptera venom, which would in turn require injecting it down the wound tract...please do not do this-these chemicals will damage the healthy cells near the wound and invite an infection. Current medical science does not endorse the use of bleach or cleansers for insect envenomation. Topical cortisone and oral benadryl are effective for local reactions and available otc. If the reaction extends beyond local swelling to generalized hives or airway involvement, get emergency medical help fast, adrenalin and steroids. Infection-cellulitis around the insct bite-is lots scarier than it used to be, cuz the antibiotics are not working anymore.
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Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.

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#183231 - 09/26/09 12:26 PM Re: Wasp stings and fireants [Re: Arney]
scafool Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/18/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Muskoka
Originally Posted By: Arney
Originally Posted By: scafool
Even if it was then adding chlorine bleach which is an acid should make it worse.

In the practical sense, bleach is actually highly alkaline, like around pH 11. While it's true that the active compound in bleach is hypochlorous acid, the bleach that we find in a bottle has sodium hydroxide added to it to make it highly alkaline. I posted on this topic a long time ago, but this is done to preserve the active ingredient in this highly alkaline state. Otherwise this highly reactive compound would break down and quickly become ineffective in storage.

Still, I agree that bleach isn't something to mess around with lightly.

Well, OK. The sodium hypochlorite reacts with water to produce the hydrochlorous acid?
So in the end it is an acid solution, or did I just get that totally wrong?

(Note: I am not a chemist, but pouring toxic chemicals onto your skin makes no sense to me at all. Read the material safety data sheets on these chemicals and shudder)
_________________________
May set off to explore without any sense of direction or how to return.

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#183235 - 09/26/09 01:47 PM Re: Wasp stings and fireants [Re: scafool]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: scafool
The sodium hypochlorite reacts with water to produce the hydrochlorous acid?
So in the end it is an acid solution, or did I just get that totally wrong?

This may sound confusing, but an "acid" doesn't necessarily result in what a non-chemist normally thinks of as an "acidic" solution (i.e. very low pH). The active ingredient in bleach may be an acid, by definition, but a normal, diluted bleach solution is about pH neutral since there is so much water compared to anything else. Think of it this way--sugar is a carbohydrate, but putting a pinch of sugar in a big glass of water doesn't make that solution a "high-carb" drink.

However, the home remedy mentioned in the OP is using "straight" bleach, right out of the bottle, and that solution is highly alkaline because sodium hydroxide is added to the bleach for storage.

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#183247 - 09/26/09 03:07 PM Re: Wasp stings and fireants [Re: Arney]
EchoingLaugh Offline
Member

Registered: 09/20/09
Posts: 158
Loc: MO, On the Mississippi
I have used a tobacco poultice on a wasp sting, it worked for me. imo i think that bleach and ammonia either one would be overkill. But i grew up around wasps (mud and paper) and got stung a lot as a kid.

Jim
_________________________
Jim
Do you know where your towel is?
Don't Panic!
I have an extra.

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#183253 - 09/26/09 04:40 PM Re: Wasp stings and fireants [Re: EchoingLaugh]
aloha Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1059
Loc: Hawaii, USA
Vinegar works for many types of sting relief. And in a pinch, so does urine.
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http://hanzosoutdoors.blogspot.com/

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#183352 - 09/27/09 07:49 PM Re: Wasp stings and fireants [Re: nursemike]
FigTree
Unregistered


Nurse Mike nailed this one.

Advoidance is the best solution.........

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