I spent a good part of the day attempting to start a fire with a magnesium block fire starter. No luck. The magnesium doesn't ignite very easily when you shower sparks at the magnesium shavings. It doesn't work too well at all, unless you drop those little shavings on top of a napkin. When you do that, the napkin is going to burn very nicely, but it's going stay lit for only a brief duration of time. It only takes about two or five strikes of the flint and steel to get those little shavings to ignite once they've been placed on top of a napkin. You run the blade of your knife along the carbon steel strker a few times, and voila ! that's all it takes to get the napkin to ignite.

The napkin fire, of course, is always going to "peter out" very quickly and long before it ever catches on to the piled-on wood.

Cotton mixed with petroleum jelly: now that's a completely different story. You get a very nice consistent flame whenever you mix cotton and petroleum jelly, and the flame is always long-lasting enough to ignite the piled-on wood.

I tried making a char cloth by placing the section of a cotton shirt inside an "altoids" can and then cooking it over the campfire. It came out very brittle, and then when I showered a whole bunch of sparks at the char cloth, the only thing that happened was that it caused the char cloth to catch on fire !

I really don't believe that that's the idea behind having a char cloth !

Isn't the char cloth supposed to hold a spark?

Isn't the char cloth supposed to be reusable ?

I really believe that we need to learn how to make fires by using the flint and steel method, and that it's a vital survival skill.

Let's converse about it, shall we ?

LW.

FLINT:STEEL:FUEL

The 50¢ fire - "SO EASY A CAVEMAN CAN DO IT"

Many moons ago, a CAVEMAN made a round steel wheel fitted against a rod of flint. When spun, the sparks lit a flume of vented butane. BIC the CAVEMAN has never been bested.

His two brothers (A PAR OF NOIDS), carry two of them. They have never been without fire. They carry no fuel, for they have never been where there was none.

Hi LW,

I think you may be confusing the method of catching relatively cold sparks produced by real flint stone(a form of mineral quartz) and carbon steel on char-cloth to produce an ember; with the sparks produced by an artificial flint rod.

The artificial flint rod (also called ferrocium or firesteel) attached to a magnesium block is a man-made product, it is a mixture of many metals and elements including, iron, zinc, magnesium, cerium, lanthanum, neodymiun,... When the rod is scraped by something sharp (does not have to be steel) friction ignites the scrapings; I think they burn at around 3000*, that is why the charcloth burned, instead of just developing an ember.

I have also been experimenting with traditional fire making methods but where I live I cannot find any flint, the only thing I have locally is Quartz which also produces a spark but it is smaller and colder. Before carbon steel was discovered the flint stone was struck with iron pyrite, this made a very cold spark. "Otiz the Iceman" had flint, iron pyrite and tinder fungus in his survival belt when died in the Alps almost 5000 years ago.

Hope this help,

Mike

Swamp,
Some nice comments; I think your idea that the mag block is way hotter is correct.
I too have been playing with "natural spark" fires. Everytime I go off in the woods I bring the char cloth and try different rock combos to try and get an ember on the char cloth. Mostly you need hard rocks. Here in the Bay area there is not a lot to work with but I keep searching.
Bill

LW,
Ideally the char cloth would get a glowing area that would quickly grow. Once it catches a spark it glows hot and spreads fast but if you only use a small piece to ignite a tinder bundle a 4 inch X 4 inch piece could last for dozens of fires. But char cloth is not reusable in the sense that you can reuse the area that actually catches the spark. The hot area burns up fsat so you need to use a little piece of the cloth and get it into a tinder bundle, then start blowing.
Bill

Sounds like ignited magnesium shavings and char cloth equals FIRE!

Pyros unite! We are not sociopaths were are the keepers of the lost fire knowledge. Go burn something today!

The magnesium is intented to be a "first tinder", rather than a complete tinder. It burns hot and FAST. You need to have a something more substantial in the way of tinder-like material, but unlike true tinder, tinder-like can be less than perfectly dry. Not wet, just less than perfect.

As for how you were scraping, let me guess- stainless steel blade, using the edge? Carbon steel works better, and if the spine of your blade is square with a decent corner, it will work much, much better. Or the back of a hacksaw blade.

If you use it right and take your time, mag blocks work much, much better.

< LW,
< Ideally the char cloth would get a glowing area that would quickly grow. Once it catches a spark it glows hot and spreads fast but if you only use a small piece to ignite a tinder bundle a 4 inch X 4 inch piece could last for dozens of fires. But char cloth is not reusable in the sense that you can reuse the area that actually catches the spark. The hot area burns up fast so you need to use a little piece of the cloth and get it into a tinder bundle, then start blowing. >

The US Army survival manual says that you're supposed to use a char cloth if the only thing you have is a spark-producing device, but the char cloth itself is a royal pain in a** to make, so maybe it just isn't realistic to depend on flint and steel if you're going to be out in the boonies for an extended period of time. I would prefer to use what nature provides, but the thought of carrying something like a "Blast Match" or a "Strike Force" is very appealing to a beginner such as myself because they really don't weigh very much at all.

I reckon that it's got to be a monumental waste of time to carry a spark-producing device if all you've got is the tinder that nature provides, because without a char cloth it's going to take a near miracle to locate a sufficient quantity of natural tinder that's going to catch fire and burn with nothing but a shower of sparks from a spark-producing device. I just can't see carrying a big jar of vaseline and a big wad of cotton balls with me everywhere I go, so I'm thinking that maybe I'd be better off learning how to use the primitive bow and drill method.

It sounds like I won't be able to rely on the char cloth too much in a primitive survival situation.

Fire making is absolutely critical if you're going to be out in the boonies for an extended period of time. There is so much you can do with a fire, like boiling and purifying water and making primitive implements, but without that ability you are simply f**ked.

< Bill

< Sounds like ignited magnesium shavings and char cloth equals FIRE!

I didn't shave any magnesium onto the char cloth; all I did was to shower a bunch of sparks at it.

< Pyros unite! We are not sociopaths were are the keepers of the lost fire knowledge. Go burn something today!

LOL !

LW.

I disagree. With magnesium block you can light fire even without very thin tinder (like lint or cotton balls). Just be patient, and spend more than 5 minutes shaving the magnesium in a very thin powder. The fine hacksaw blade is better than a knife in producing such a powder (and in producing the sparks too). Just use it as a mini saw. The magnesium pile must be something like 1/2 of teaspoon in volume at least (the more the better for an average beginner). Shave on a flat or better concave piece of more or less dry wood (paper, cloth). Spark right on the pile. Sooner or later magnesium will ignite. It will burn hot at least for a minute. Just add more fuel as usual, starting from a match thick kindling. Also watch the base piece of wood. It's usually develops a nice coal right under the pile.

Try this link:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=3673

From my experience with a flintlock rifle I made from a kit a few years back, a natural flint striking a hardened steel can produce a huge shower of sparks, which are at least hot enough to be painful. Very painful.

Frank2135

Quote 'As for how you were scraping, let me guess- stainless steel blade, using the edge? Carbon steel works better'

This is not true and I think a real urban myth amongst survilist. The Firesteel rod whether on a Mg block or by its self is a alloy that when scrapped with any of a myrid of substances that are strong then the firesteel material will cause sparks to form. I have used a surgical blade with great success to make a fine shower of sparks, the blade is 440 stainless steel, as well as the blad off a swiss army knife. Both thes work better then the back of my Mora knife or other carbon steel knife.
Now if you are using true flint and steel, carbon steel, to start a fire then you are actually froming sparks by the action of the flint scrapping off splinters of the carbon steel. The one time I did this it worked but it took time.

I think if we look at the history of fire meaking we would see mans quest for easier and easier ways of making fire. The indians and mountain man carried the best method they had for there time, and only fell back to more primative methods when they did not have the more modern marvials.

cheers

Quote "The US Army survival manual says that you're supposed to use a char cloth if the only thing you have is a spark-producing device, but the char cloth itself is a royal pain in a** to make, so maybe it just isn't realistic to depend on flint and steel if you're going to be out in the boonies for an extended period of time. I would prefer to use what nature provides, but the thought of carrying something like a "Blast Match" or a "Strike Force" is very appealing to a beginner such as myself because they really don't weigh very much at all. "

Again starting a fire is like caving you alway carry three sources. Lighter, matches, and spark producer. Then from there you use what nature provides.

cheers