Originally Posted By: ironraven
You're point about the 60 pounds of camera gear with Les is part of why I was hesitant at first, but it does a pretty good job of simulating a little kid or a hurt companion with you.


Not even CLOSE! A hurt companion or kid requires a lot more than just carrying - they double your water, food, and shelter requirements, and unless they're unconcious, they contribute to the situation by either ofering advice or requiring comfort. and a hurt companion requires medical attention that neither Bear nor Les could give, since they don't carry any first-aid gear with them.

Originally Posted By: ironraven
But he's not someone who does stupid stuff. He makes mistakes, and he cusses at himself for it, that's human. He gets careless when he's tired, just like we all would. And If you'd read Les' comments on his website, if it gets bad, he's dropping the camera gear, lighting up his PLB, and hoping he'll get extracted.


The entire concept of intentionally putting yourself into a life-threatening survival situation with no backup is by definition one gigantic stupid act. Don't get me wrong, I respect Les' commitment to showing real survival techniques that could really work in a real-world situation, but let's face it - intentionally risking your life to teach somebody how to not risk their life ain't the brightest move in the world.

Nor do I think wasting time trying to make a slingshot out of your underwear is a MENSA-qualifying activity.

Originally Posted By: ironraven
He's got a good simulation going.


More realistic than Bear, I'll grant you, because Les doesn't climb on stuff and avoids water travel, both of which are the riskiest things that Beat does. But simulation? No way; again, I cite the camera, not as extra weight that he carries, but as a passive spectator for whom Les has to put on a show while he's out there. Running his own camera gear is a huge drain on Les' energy, both in carrying the weight and in setting up and staging the various shots. Les has often had to make dangerous climbs or treks through dangerous terrain, set up the camera, then go back and do it again so he has footage of himself doing it.

Of course, since Bear has a camera crew doing that stuff for him, he's got the bennefit of human companionship, and someone right there who can call for help if he does break his neck sliding down loose scree that even the greenest newbie climber would avoid like the plague.

Originally Posted By: ironraven
If Bear breaks his leg doing something stupid like climbing up a waterfall or jumping off a 40 foot cliff into rapids, he's got a camera crew within a hundred feet of him, including a medical staff, and a helicopter on standby. That isn't a simulation, that is a side show.


No more so than Les' side show. I take them both with a grain of salt, because they are both there specifically for the purpose of staging a survival situation for a TV show.

Originally Posted By: ironraven
Toss in questions about his credentials and his habit of pointing his daddy's lawyer at the people who raise them (like the people who were on the safety boat when "soloed" some trip in a kayak). He has a credability gap that Kenevils wouldn't jump.


Well, I hadn't heard the thing about lawyers, and I couldn't care less about either man's "credentials," but it's obvious that Bear has got a camera crew and a safety team near him at all times when he films. To me, that doesn't make him any less credible than Les, just more cautious, which is ironic considering that most people consider him far more reckless than Les.

Who is more reckless, the guy who risks his life for a TV show alone and lost, or the guy who risks his life for a TV show with a safety crew watching him?

I don't consider either of them to be any more or less reckless, more or less credible, than the other; their recklessness and credibility simply comes in different flavors.

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