SOME FREE THOUGHTS – I was treated in the emergency ward of St Al’s Hospital in Boise, Idaho for a bad yellow jacket sting in the face. In the 18 hours of getting back to town, it had gotten into the eye, ear, throat and neck. The attending physician was the resident expert for bee stings and rattlesnake bites.

My opinion based on his advise -

1. It is a vacuum pump. It cannot hurt anything.
2. If it removes any percentage of the venom it is good.
3. Time is of the essence. Think in seconds, not minutes.
4. Practice: quick draw, Providone swab, shave, pump.
5. Replace the razor with a Twin Blade Schick
6. Double dosage of Benadryl
7. Bandage with wet pack of Adolph’s Meat Tenderizer.
8. Don’t waste time getting to a trauma center if you can.
9. If you can’t get out, turn on the PLB and leave a note.
10. Cook and eat the damn snake

If it works like a syringe, you pull up on the plunger, then withdraw the device off the skin. Depress the plunger to original position. Reapply device, pull back on plunger. Remove, reset. Repeat.

You don't just leave it on our skin frantically pumping up and down like you're filtering water.

After the device withdrawal, the common sense would recommend to wipe the skin and the suction cap before reapplying. Not throughly, just really quick. I doubt any venom will be in the syringe, just air. If no Sawyer Extractor is available, the mouth sucking technique, I believe, is still more than nothing. At least much better than those rubber cap based kits available on the market (though, one may need some practice sucking hard).

NightHiker: The venom in the mouth is nothing compared to venom in the tissue. Just spit once in a while if you wish so. But if nothing else is available, it's a chance. Whatever doctor said (Ok, - IMHO).

Could you also cut the top of a normal syringe, and use that in a emergency?

I don't own a Sawyer extractor, but I have played with one and the suction is created by pushing down on the plunger. Yes it is counter intuitive but it does create a heck of a lot of suction. Try it on yourself, doesn't hurt.

Wow! Now I understand why it's so effective. It's not just a syringe with a simple piston, but the real pneumatic pump! So sad there is no information on its construction. I'd be convinced to get one much earlier seeing that some real physics is involved .

JIM, I think the cut off syringe will work better than sucking by mouth, but its hard edges may damage the skin severely. I'm going to buy Sawyer today, and also I have some plastic syringes at work. I'll try to measure the difference in suction.

Shoot, my browser crashed so I can't reference the article I was reading. It was actually something from a Department of Defense site on snakebite. The article had collected some interested stats on snakebites and might help put this tool into some perspective.

There are roughly 7,000 snake bites a year in the US, and 15 fatalities. So, if you're bitten, there's a 466 out of 467 chance that you'll live. Not bad odds, and I doubt that many of those people had a Sawyer around.

The article also mentioned that about half of bites by snakes are "dry" bites, where no venom is actually injected (it's not clear if this figure includes non-poisonous snake bites or is limited to bites by poisonous varieties). That's a very high proportion of "harmless" bites. The article was mentioning something about how defensive bites are more likely to be dry, compared to when the snake is trying to actually hunt and kill some prey.

Here's a disturbing stat--about 3,000 of those 7,000 bites happened when someone was handling or otherwise bothering a snake. Most of these bites occured on the hands and forearms. Most bites that occurred when the person was just minding their own business occur below the knee. I'm not sure how they define these groups, but it sounds like almost 40% of snake bites could be avoided if people did not try to handle a snake or just left them alone. It's gotta be partly how they define these terms because I find it hard to believe that so many people would want to try and grab a snake with their bare hands. Well, I didn't grow up in the country, so maybe I'm missing something here. I just don't see how so many people could be defined as "handling" a snake when they get bit unless it includes pet snakes, but I don't think it does.

Interestingly, the article mentioned that military medics carry antivenin. That was news to me.

Do not use Mouth to try and suction out venom! Whatever miniscule amount of venom you could draw using your mouth will not be worth the risk of exposure. Should your mouth come in contact with any venom, the membranes in and around the mouth are very permeable to venom and you will become a victim as well. Spitting once in a while will not eliminate all the venom, and what remains or gets absorbed in the meantime will put you in a real crisis.

Ok. Just got that Sawyer's wonder at the local REI. Well, it works nicely. You need just fully extend the plunger, apply the suction cap over the wound, and depress it completely to activate the spring inside, which in turn will produce the force on an internal piston. So you don't need to apply force anymore, just leave it stuck to the skin and do its sucking job for 2-3 minutes. Pull the plunger to release the vacuum. Repeat 4-5 times, wiping the extracted liquids. 15 min total. All this is according to the instruction manual.

Funny enough - the Sawyer's suction caps fit perfectly the standard disposable plastic 60ml syringe (big one, just a little larger than the Sawyer), which I took at work for comparison as promised. The test was simple. I've applied the Sawer to some place on my thigh, activated it and watched the skin bulge growing. Then, using the same Sawyer cap attached to the syringe I've pulled the plunger. Ouch! I've pulled too hard! The sucking power of the syringe is much stronger! But yes, you have to continuously stretch your muscles for 2-3 min. An you'll need both hands to do the job. Yes, I was able to make a much nicer bulge with the syringe.

Conclusion? Nice suction caps for my syringe, some fascinating survival reading about venomous species, cute yellow box, and a disposable shaving razor as a bonus (an ancient single bladed though)...

By the way. The manual says the mouth sucking is only dangerous if you have an open wound in your mouth.

Greetings - thanks for the great post. I'm not an expert on the issue and have no personal experience treating venomous bites, but I've done some personal research on the matter and about the Sawyer Extractor.

The Sawyer Extractor efficacy has been much debated ever since the Wilderness Medical Society released an equipment/treatment update to its members a few years ago. The WMS reported on a medical/scientific study they funded which was designed to test the effectiveness of the Sawyer Extractor on snake bite envenomation. As a result of the studies findings, the WMS advised against the use of the Sawyer Extractor for venomous snake bites, although the WMS did previously endorse the product.

Some scientfic/medical papers have been published that declare the Sawyer pump ineffective: "Suction for venomous snakebite A study of “mock venom” extraction in a human model." Annals of Emergency Medicine, Volume 43, Issue 2, Pages 181-186, M. Alberts concludes; "The Sawyer Extractor pump removed bloody fluid from our simulated snakebite wounds but removed virtually no mock venom, which suggests that suction is unlikely to be an effective treatment for reducing the total body venom burden after a venomous snakebite."

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WB0-4BGH766-M&_user=10&_coverDate=02%2F29%2F2004&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=5056b65943bd717615bb6786d328be58

http://www.annemergmed.com/article/PIIS0196064403008138/abstract

Unfortunately, Sawyer does not seem to provide any scientific evidence for their snake-bite kit's effectiveness claims: http://www.sawyeronline.com/ Surely a medical emergency device manufacturer should be able to provide some scientific validity to such claims.

An older study exists that did site very postitive results, but its claims were also found to be controversial among some members of the medical community: https://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/extract/328/7/516?ck=nck

I was inspired to research this subject last year after I watched a Science Education TV program in which they demonstrated the ineffectiveness of the Sawyer using real snakes and dead pigs(I can't find the video or information on the show anywhere - I believe it was a goofy titlelike "Mr. Science"...). The host and attending lab techs demonstrated that the Sawyer Extractor did not remove much if any fluid or venom from the wound site. It was not a very sophisticated test, but it did seem realistic enough to suggest that the Sawyer Extractor was not effective, as they declared at their experiment's end.

The suggestion has been made that even a small two percent reduction in venom may do some good, and also that some envenomation sites will repond differently to treatment with the device - for instance, a pocket or blister of subcutaneous venom may exist and be more treatable, insect bite/sting toxins may be more treatable due to their proximity to the surface of the skin, etc...

As the Sawyer doesn't seriously damage the envenomation site, I for one would give it a try...the WMS study doesn't claim that any additional harm was done with the Sawyer (nothing life threatening, at least), and it didn't provide test results against insect or spider bites either... The device is small enough to suggest that it is a good addition to a personal medical kit.

The fatality rate for venomous snake bites in the US is extremely low (most estimates I recall are way under 1%), so it is unlikely you will die even if bitten in a remote area. Many bites do not even require antivenom treatment.

Thanks in advance for any additional information or clarity about this issue - Again, please note that I am not a medical expert or affiliated with Sawyer or any other organization related to the independent studies presented.