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#99088 - 07/04/07 04:30 AM Re: 10 First Aid Myths [Re: JIM]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: JIM
BTW: It's very rare that people swallow their tongue (if you don't caunt a wrong guedel-airway insertion),
but a cause could be that the small piece of tissue under the tongue (we in The Netherlands call it the tongue-belt, but do't know how you call it in the US), that connects it to the bottom jaw tears off.
When that occurs, it's usually seen in soccer-matches when a player gets a very hard ball into his face, resulting in the tongue-belt breaking, not during a seizure.



It's called the lingual frenulum. wink

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#107827 - 10/05/07 03:41 AM Re: 10 First Aid Myths [Re: JIM]
SARbound Offline
Addict

Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 503
Loc: Quebec City, Canada
Jim, are you saying that you would insert an OPA/NPA on a patient having a seizure?

Just wondering...
_________________________
-----
"The only easy day was yesterday."

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#107830 - 10/05/07 04:58 AM Re: 10 First Aid Myths [Re: SARbound]
Alan_Romania Offline

Addict

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 648
Loc: Arizona
I have seen more than one bitten tongue from a Seizure. I have never seen a bitten tongue cause more than a bleeding problem. I have seen a few tongue tips bitten off, but again it is never more than a bleeding issue.

The absolute best thing to do for a patient that is seizing is protect them from doing any more harm to themselves from their surroundings. Don't put anything in their mouth while they are seizing... if you need to secure an airway while they are postictal then manual airway management (head tilt) is usually all you need.

Bee, an NPA would probably not hurt a seizing patient if you could actually get one in safely… but you would be wasting your time. It isn’t an airway issue that causes seizing patients to become hypoxic. Placing anything in a seizing patient’s airway is more likely to cause a foreign body airway obstruction then it is to do any good.

As OBG stated, “swallowing the tongue” isn’t actually that. It refers to the tongue relaxing a causing it to occlude the airway. Normally our gag-reflex prevents this, but an unconscious person’s gag reflex can be compromised. An OPA does help prevent this, but a proper head-tilt or modified jaw thrust method or manual airway management is the most effective basic airway management with an OPA or NPA as an adjunct after one of those airway maneuvers has been performed. OPAs and NPAs do require special training but are very simple and many area’s are including their training in first responder classes (a 40-60 hour course) if someone is interested in gaining that additional training.

As for tearing the lingual frenulum, it is very rare in adults… and usually the least of their worries.

OH, I do currently both work in the field on a busy paramedic unit and am the lead instructor of a paramedic training program.
_________________________
"Trust in God --and press-check. You cannot ignore danger and call it faith." -Duke

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#107831 - 10/05/07 05:02 AM Re: 10 First Aid Myths [Re: Alan_Romania]
Alan_Romania Offline

Addict

Registered: 06/29/05
Posts: 648
Loc: Arizona
Quote:
2. Peeing on a Jellyfish Sting

You’re far more likely to suffer a jellyfish sting than a shark bite, so here’s what you need to know:

First, don’t believe the rumors. Peeing on a stung bit of skin won’t do much to relieve suffering, and you’ll suffer some odd stares, too, doctors say.

“Urine has not been scientifically proven to help in jellyfish stings”, said Dr. Paul Auerbach, an emergency physician at Stanford University Hospital and an expert on jellyfish stings.

“Instead, vinegar is the best first treatment,” he said, when treating stings from North American jellyfish.


As Col. Potter would say Buffalo Biscuits! It may not be scientifically proven... but it works (from personal experience). You can always go back into the surf to wash off (if you dare).

Quote:
Don't acquire your first aid information from Hollywood!


Best advice from this whole thread!

However... don't rule-out the usefulness of a tourniquet in the right situation. When needed, tourniquets SAVE LIVES and you will probably see an increase in their popularity in austere/remote medicine in years to come. Sure, pressure and shock management with a speedy trip to a surgeon is the preferred management of a major bleed… but the speedy trip to a surgeon isn’t always an option.

Disclaimer to all: DON’T DO ANYTHING YOU HAVEN’T BEEN TRAINED TO DO or ANYTHING THAT IS NOT WITHIN YOUR SCOPE OF PRACTICE!...


Edited by Alan_Romania (10/05/07 05:11 AM)
_________________________
"Trust in God --and press-check. You cannot ignore danger and call it faith." -Duke

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#107837 - 10/05/07 07:47 AM Re: 10 First Aid Myths [Re: SARbound]
JIM Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1032
Loc: The Netherlands
Quote:
Jim, are you saying that you would insert an OPA/NPA on a patient having a seizure?


I didn't say that. I just mentioned that a swallowed tongue is rare, but it can happen when you insert a Guedel airway the wrong way.
Then OBG replied in his post:
Quote:
While maybe slightly off the topic of seizures, EMT's usually carry oropharyngeal airways to prevent the tongue from falling back and blocking the airway. Some refer to this as swallowing the tongue. Same result, compromised airway...

After that I said that a Guedel airway is the same as a OPA.

Maybe it was a bit confusing, but I didn't say anything about inserting a OPA in a victim with a seizure.. wink

_________________________
''It's time for Plan B...'' ''We have a Plan B?'' ''No, but it's time for one.'' -Stargate SG-1

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#107842 - 10/05/07 12:06 PM Re: 10 First Aid Myths [Re: Alan_Romania]
Matt26 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 309
Loc: Vermont
Thanks for speaking up Allen, Always nice to hear from the pros!
Stay safe.
_________________________
If it ain't bleeding, it doesn't hurt.

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#107879 - 10/05/07 09:22 PM Re: 10 First Aid Myths [Re: OldBaldGuy]
MDinana Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/08/07
Posts: 2208
Loc: Beer&Cheese country
Originally Posted By: OldBaldGuy
While maybe slightly off the topic of seizures, EMT's usually carry oropharyngeal airways to prevent the tongue from falling back and blocking the airway. Some refer to this as swallowing the tongue. Same result, compromised airway...


Yeah, OBG, we do. Mainly, though, OPA's are used as an adjunct during CPR. Though, yeah, they can be used as a bite block.


Jim... the tongue belt is the lingual frenulum. As opposed to the labial frenulums (the little pieces that connect your lips to your jaws).

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