This is an odd story. There has to be some medical reason for this mans death. Fort Hood is in area that does not have overly intense terrain. Temperature in the 90's are not that bad especially for a soldier that has been in Iraq.

Its a sad story but a lesson for all of us. I started teaching my 7 year old son compass and map skills. I learn how to take care of myself early as a child. Seems like most urban kids do not have a clue.

Oh one more thing. That's Texas hill country and the humidity levels are very high. Where I live, 110 in the summer is to be expected, but humidity is relatively low. Over there, he'd be sweating even sitting under a shade tree.

Excellent comparison between the two. Thanks for that.

I agree, much more detail is needed to reasonably analyze this story. As others have said, an inconvenient medical condition may have been a big factor.

I have to say, though, that in one respect it is an example of how we all love a winner and dump on the losers. If he had survived he would be congratulated on his "never quit" attitude and "hoo-ah" dedication. Since he failed, he gets criticized for being prideful and having "summit fever".

In the US Army some of the most idolized soldiers are the ones in SF (and particularly SFOD-D ), who are legendary for pressing on no matter what the circumstance. This is true even in their training evolutions, where they are frequently offered the chance to quit. I have seen commentary from more than a few SF trainers who say that the chief thing they really hate in a candidate is being a quitter.

Again, lots more detail is needed but I think it is remiss to slag this guy for pressing on. It is a fundamentally prized character trait of his peer group.

You woulb be surprised, I know an E-7 who is hopeless with a map and compass.

I hate to say this but... May-be he didn't want to found.
Its pretty obvious he wasn't going pass the Land Nav section of Warrior Leadership Course (new name for PLDC) and instead of retaking it and a possible demotion back to E-4 he chose to do teh unthinkable instead.

Thanks for the pictures showing the type of terrain. When I was on Google earth it gave the terrain as being between around 220 to 300 metres in height over most of the camp, which is about 260 feet difference between the high and low points. Perhaps I should have described the terrain as gently rolling small hill country rather than being flat. The search area does not in anyway seem to be extreme or something that I would call difficult to navigate (the hills give some contour information on the map, which is easier to navigate on rather than being completely flat).

I've also read some of the previous articles. It does appear that it had been raining heavily in the area,

From http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4881251.html



Maybe thats why the foliage in the photos look reasonably green and lush. The search officials were also concerned that Sprader may have been disabled because of a snake bite.

When I was comparing the two stories, I was really just pointing out that is that it appears that rudimentary SERE or even basic survival skills seem to be lacking in both cases despite their army experience or lack thereof. Navigational skills again appear to be poor in both cases also. I do accept that their are major differences between the two cases but the failure to train these basic skills may have in both cases may have led to a different outcome.

I'm sorry to say but even 13 and 14 year old teenage army cadets in the UK seem to have a better understanding of navigation using a map and compass than some of the military professionals with many years experience in the US army. Some of these NCO's on a leadership course even required a siren so that they could find their way home. Did all the course candidates carry a mobile phone just in case they got lost? It appears that the course leadership phoned Sprader to ask where he was!!

The more information about this tragic incident leads me more to the conclusion that this soldiers death was avoidable unless of another unreported medical emergency. It's beginning to seem like the US army needs to buy some PLBs for their future candidates on this basic map and compass navigation course.

I grew up fairly close to this area (and still live fairly close). I also think it's kind of a bizarre story. At worst, he should have just had a miserable four days without a shower.

I will say that Friday was rather hot: 95 or 96 and just so humid you dripped (a month from now, we'll be longing for the "nice" days like that). My first thoughts were that he was from somewhere where he just wasn't used to the heat. However, he's done a tour in Iraq (VERY hot, BUT dry) and is from Georgia.

The water thing is also bizarre. We've had one of the wettest springs I can ever remember here. Water, even in the fractured limestone of the hill country, is rather easy to find right now. I seriously doubt he drank "bad" water and succumbed so quickly. First, as I've already alluded to, there's very little stagnant water with all the rain we've had. Second, stomach bugs take a few days to really kick in.

About the cell phone. He likely just didn't have any signal. There's a lot of dead spots around this area (especially with Nextel, uggghh). That part doesn't really stand out.

The last thing that makes it odd is that he was found in very thick brush. Apparantly, thick enough that you almost have to crawl in. That's why they had such a tough time finding him. Crawling off into the thick brush, when you know searchers will soon be looking, is antithetical to everything that's taught about survival.

Not trying to dump on the guy, but the facts right now show that he made the wrong decision at EVERY juncture of his short adventure.

Please state the source that backs up this statement. If you mean that the average Boy Scout knows more about navigation than the average soldier you may be right.

The English vs US portion of this statement serves no point other than your typical UK-centric bashing of the US.
Your above statement did not need to include yet another UK=good US=Not good comparison.


I am very proud of my country and I would appreciate it if you would limit your comments to the subjects at hand rather than additional comments on how you consider the US to be inferior to the UK.

That's funny, I do the same thing exctept that I only see what someone else quotes. Maybe we make a drinking game out of it. Of course, we'd have to drink good American bourbon not that UK stuff that tastes like someone peed on swamp muck...

-Blast

Trying to hurry in the heat and high humidity could lead to heat exhaustion, which can include mental confusion. Keep going, don't drink enough, go into heat stroke, and die.

Add an unknown medical condition or medication, and the situation could escalate even faster.

I doubt that it could have been snakebite, as someone mentioned. I've never heard of a case of snakebite without obvious symptoms, invisible even at a cursory autopsy.

Sue