Now that it is June and nice and hot here in Phoenix I thought it was time to think about when it is cold. Actually it still gets cold at night, in northern Arizona. My boys are going to Boy Scout Summer Camp, up north.

What do you folks that live in the cold recommend to carry in your day-pack to keep warm? A wool stocking cap is a given.

If you only carry one other item to stay warm what would it be? It seem that a long john undershirt might be good. Maybe a wool vest or hooded sweater.

Thanks!

Assuming I had some sort of wind cheater or rain shell (always a given for my daypack) the thing I really like best for the cool evenings is an Ullfrotto wool top. These are all function with nothing else. Either the 400 or 600g would be a good choice.



http://www.woolpower.se/en/asp/produkter_2_7236.asp

I usually carry a EMS fleece vest, but it doesn't pack small. It's Polartec 200, I believe. Or, I have an REI shirt... not sure the name of it. It's 60% poly 30% nylon, 10% lycra... it fits and looks almost like a wetsuit when on (it's pretty snug). I've found that over a wicking shirt, I can stay warm down into the 40s if actively moving. It looks like almost identical to this:
http://www.rei.com/product/747571

A common error is dressing for cold is to pile into a hat, coat and upper torso garment. Then our legs get to freeze. My minimum unexpected cold weather kit is a balaclava, full set of upper and lower wool longjohns, wool socks and dachstein mittens.

Does the "given" also include wool socks?

Those, a watch cap, and as odd as it sounds, a long wool tunic. Think a Colonial-era hunting shirt, but rather than linen, a light wool, about mid thigh length. It's like a poncho liner that won't melt.

It's odd, I'm slowly adapting my ren faire wear to outdoors wear. Oh, wait! If you aren't dressing like a fop, then that's what it is. It didn't change all that radically much from when the Greeks were around to the 1600s. Hard to beat that type of gear.

craig i also live in Phx.Az. and go up on the rim to camp around august and september..when the sun starts to go down and it really cools off i put on my wooly hat,light poly-pro shirt with a warm fleece zip top..also i always wear wool socks on my feet along with good boots..i wear shorts all the time but i do'nt worry about cold legs as i can warm them around the campfire or if no campfire i get in my warm sleep sack..vince g. 11b inf...

Fleece top w/ hood. No it doesn't pack small, but its nice and toasty.

If a wool cap is a given, then I would bring my GI wooley pulley or Baja jacket, since I always carry leather gloves with me.

Personally speaking, I don't have much of a problem keeping my legs warm if I can keep my body trunk warm.

Long Johns give me winter skin and I need what's left of my mind, undistracted by itching.

Keep in mind, my cold weather experience comes from icebreaking, which is a different world from camping out in the mountains!

One item.... a long sleeve light-weight fleece shirt at the very least. It doesn't take up very much room, adds very little weight and can sufficiently cut a chill from lower night-time temps and breezes.

Add wind/waterproof trousers and a neck gaiter. Fleece trouser's (as C.K. pointed out) if its going below freezing. Make sure that they are baggy enough to slip on over your normal leg wear. That way you can thermostate without giving the local wildlife a fright.

For me, I've found that a Patagonia expedition weight Capilene top is one of the best bang-for-the-buck when I don't have that much space. That said, I'd also carry headgear and at least some lightweight gloves. For me it's a given I'll be wearing wool socks.

FWIW, I pack an Outdoor Research (OR) Ice-9 Helmet Liner if I really want to be slimmed down. It folds flat, puts fleece on my whole head including ears and will fit under my rain hat. It's not very stylish, but good bang-for-the-buck when you want to slim down.

-john

What is Dachstein, is it just the name of a model from the Mammut company that are available at campmor?

I've heard that the warmest knitted mitts are those made from buffalo wool but are not easy to find and that duffel wool is warmer than knitted mitts. But these Dachstein mitts are boiled wool and pre shrunk, which makes them more dense and resembling wool felt or duffle but are still knitted mitts. Is this correct?

Thanks Schwert, as I'm always looking for cold weather dressing improvement, I decided to investigate more about these famous Ullfrotte underwear. I found the woolpower products available in Canada from www.gransfors.ca I downloaded and will read their primer on dressing for the cold at http://www.woolpower.se/en/asp/kladigratt_1.asp

But the idea of mail ordering long johns makes me hesitant because these items should be form fitting without any gap and non restricting at the same time and be long enough also.

Common mistake: Only your WICKING layer (if worn) should be CLOSE fitting. EVERYTHING else should be as LOOSE fitting as is practical.


Reason: It is the air trapped by your clothing that keeps you warm. Not the clothing itself.

Wool is the answer, works even when wet.
I lived in Prescott for 15 years and am now up in Western Montana. I carry Ibex wool and a Golite raintop. If you're really worried a down coat in a stuff sack.

Let me modify the question a little.

They're boys! They will not carry anything big, bulky or heavy for a day hike. They only have their CamelBak because it has easy to carry water.

The boys have a watch cap, a military style poncho and leather work gloves. So they have something to keep their head warm and a wind and rain layer. I am wondering what I could have them carry in their pack that would help keep them warm if they have to spend the night. They all have a medium size CamelBak backpack so it can't be too bulky. They are 15, 12 and 12 years old.

Thanks!

1. The liner for the military-style poncho - instant sleeping bag.
2. If it is something that needs to be worn, I would suggest a fleece jacket or pullover made of Polartec 200 or equivalent - light, warm, dries fast and insulates even when wet.

11B INF

Thank your for your service sir! I was a 64C for seven year. I helped transport you guys.

You know what I am talking about! Around the Flagstaff area, in the summer, it is short sleeve weather during the day but after the sun goes down you will freeze your butt off if you don't have warm clothes. If you know you are only going on a hike, for a few hours, the boys are not going to carry bulky clothes.

Thanks!

A poncho liner, sweatshirt or sweater without sleeves, and sweat pants?

My most used piece of hiking, camping, (and casual use), clothing over the last 5 years has been a thin Marmot Reactor fleece pullover (100 weight). It also comes in a full zip version. I love the Marmot design for a few tried and true reasons. The thickness is just right (not too hot or bulky), the raised collar really does help with heat retention, and its very lightweight and durable. Here's a link showing the pullover and full zip.

http://www.moosejaw.com/moosejaw/search2.asp?SearchResults.SearchHandle=A%3dMens+Fleece+Jackets+Clothing%7eB%3dMens+Fleece+Jackets+Clothing%7eD%3d9%7eE%3d1%5e1%5e2%5enum_Sort1%7eK%3d4%7eL%3d1%7eM%3d5%7e&SearchResults.SortAscending=True&SearchResults.SortBy=num_Sort1&Answer=934&s_id=0

Fleece jacket or pullover

Hi Craig_phx

For lightweight compact insulation the Piqolo down pullover from PHD Designs may be useful at 11.7 oz but may be a bit over what you would want to budget,

available at http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=25_59&products_id=114

options are available at added cost for stud on down hood and more waterproof materials using Drishell. This is one of the lightest and compact jackets available for the warmth they provide.

I would forget about fleece for insulation, being to heavy and not really warm enough and also doesn't compact down to well.

For a cheaper down jacket at around 18 oz the Filium down smock

available at http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16287&category_id=248

is considerably cheaper.

If down kit is not acceptable then something like the synthetic Snugpak Softie or Nanok SF range Jackets will be much warmer and compact than fleece.

http://www.snugpak.com/30_codegreen/32_01_sleekaoriginal.htm
http://www.nanoktactical.no/

These jackets are rated about 5 degrees Celsius warmer but will be about 10 to 12 oz heavier than the Piqolo down pullover.