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#96411 - 06/02/07 04:40 AM Re: Hurricane Condition (HurCon) Checklist [Re: KarenRei]
Black_Wulf Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 19
Loc: South Florida
Throwing stuff in the pool is not really a good idea. Some people do it, but you may want to be aware of the dangers of doing so. Say you have a 30 pound lawn chair, you throw it in the pool. You should really lower it into the pool, and keep a hold on it till it hits the bottom. If you drop that chair in, and let go, it could sink to fast and crack the lining of the pool. If it gets a crack, the water would start draining slowly and you would have to get it repaired. Repairing the lining is not a cheep or fast job, they need to drain all the water, chisel out the area around the crack, replace the beding as it will have most likely liquified or collapsed, then repour the concrete, reapply the lining, then redo the diamond brite or other coating, then kill your waterbill to refill it.

I would say follow this one at your own risk, it works if done right, but be aware that if your not extremely carefull it can cause chaos. Also be aware that insurance companies know about this completely, so if you try to claim a cracked pool lining, they will deny the claim.

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#96444 - 06/03/07 02:45 AM Re: Hurricane Condition (HurCon) Checklist [Re: Black_Wulf]
KarenRei Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/29/07
Posts: 28
I assumed people would be smart enough not to *literally throw* things into their pool smile

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#96448 - 06/03/07 02:56 AM Re: Hurricane Condition (HurCon) Checklist [Re: KarenRei]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
tut, tut, tut,,,you've been and are speaking in a common sense fashion. that is strictly prohibited by the latest Presidential Directive.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#96450 - 06/03/07 03:37 AM Re: Hurricane Condition (HurCon) Checklist [Re: KarenRei]
Black_Wulf Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 19
Loc: South Florida
It would make sense to assume it, but remember the "common sense" warnings you find on various items, such as don't use hair drier while sitting in a bathtub of water, topical medications with warnings of "for external use only" and the little dissicant packets that come with electronics that warn "do not eat" People tend to be rather stupid at times. Thats what bodily harm wavers are for. grin

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#96977 - 06/08/07 03:56 PM Hurricane shutters. Pros and Cons [Re: wildman800]
Black_Wulf Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 19
Loc: South Florida
Hurricane shutters are something that of late has been in really high demand, primarily due to the increased number of landfall hurricanes we have gotten in the past few years.
There are several types, I am going to cover the most popular type, pros and cons with each, their cost, and worktime needed for them.

----------------------------------------------
Storm panel shutters.
The first type are storm panel style. These are made of steel, aluminum, or polycarbonate, and are corrugated, and overlap at the edges to provide strength.
Of these, there are three variations.

First uses both tracks and bolts. There is usually an aluminum track above the window where the top edge of the panel would be inserted, then they would be bolted to the bottom of the window using bolts which are permaantly mounted in the wall. These panels mount vertically.

Second type uses two aluminum tracks, one on the top and one on the bottom of the window. These panels must be inserted into the side of the channel. Once they are alligned, they can be bolted to the channels. These panels also mount vertically.

Third type uses permanent bolts set into the wall next to doors and windows. These panels can be hung to allow allignment, then bolted down when done. These panels mount horizontally.

PROS
-Cheapest of the permanent shutter systems.
-Removable, so they don't detract from the look of the house when not in use.
-Strong, They don't get much stronger than this.

CONS
-Storage, you need a bit of space to store this type of shutters when not in use.
-Not the easiest to handle, longer shutters may require more than one person to install.
-Don't always line up correctly, however you can mark the shutters to make allignment easier.
-Sharp edges, If you are using steel or aluminum, it's recomended you wear gloves while installing.

Cost. 7-8 dollars per square foot
Prep time, can be as little as 15 minutes for small windows, however can take as much as much as an hour. Plan using the whole day to mount these.
------------------------------------------------
Accordion shutters.
These shutters are usually one piece, or two piece for larger windows, they mount in a housing next to the windows or doors while not in use.
As a storm closes in, they can be unfolded to protect the window or door.

PROS
-They are permanently mounted, and stored in housing next to the windows so you sacrifice no storage space.
-Can be done by one person, quickly. Even the elderly can handle these shutters.
-Some models can be locked which can provide theft protection if you have to bug out.

CONS
-The housing looks rather unsightly, they are large boxes on either side of the windows or doors.
-They are on wheels whcih means they can break "more moving parts" and they need regular maintence.

Cost 16-20 dollars per square foot
Prep time 10-15 minutes for the entire house.
--------------------------------------------------
Colonial shutters.
These are two piece louvered shutters that attach to the wall beside each window, when needed, they can be closed to provide protection for the window.

PROS
-Permanently mounted, they are already mounted to the home, so they don't need additional storage space.
-Can be made storm ready by one person, including the elderly.
-Can be decorative, they add to the look of the home.

CONS
-Some shutters require a locking rod or bar to lock the shutters in place, this can increase the prep time.
-Doesn't protect doors, another type of shutter system will be needed for complete protection.

Cost. 18-30 dollars per square foot
Prep time 45 minutes to an hour for the entire house.
-----------------------------------------------------
Bahama shutters.
These one piece louvered shutters attach above the windows, and can be proped open to provide shade for the window, or bolted down to provide protection.

PROS
-Permanently mounted, and don't require additional storage space.
-Can be made storm ready by one person.
-Provide permanent shade and privacy, even when open.

CONS
-Have been weaker then other system, however newer models protect quite well.
-The can block too much light, thought compaired to a corrugated steel or aluminum shutter, they let in a lot.
-They don't protect doors, just like the colonial.

Cost 18-30 dollars per square foot
Prep time 15-30 minutes for the entire house.
-------------------------------------------------------
Roll down shutters.
These shutters attach above the window, and roll up and store in the box when not in use. They can be lowered via a handcrank and some models are electric

PROS
-Permanently mounted to the house, don't require storage space.
-Can be made storm ready by one person, some systems can be controled from a central panel, hit a switch and they all lower.
-One of the best methods of protection, and provide theft deterrent as well.

CONS
-Most expensive
-Electric shutters require a backup battery or some manual method of using them or your out of luck till the electricity returns.

Cost 30-55 dollars per square foot
Prep time 5 to 15 minutes.
-------------------------------------------------------
Hurricane glass
This glass can withstand debris and wind and provide breakin protection.

PROS
-Eliminates the need for shutters.
-Permanent, once hung they are part of the house.

CONS
-Must be installed by a contractor.
-Frame must be replaced along with the pane to meet code.
-Not ideal for old houses as it will cost more to retrofit a house, best for new construction.

Cost 35-50 dollars per square foot, that includes frame and glass.
Prep time 0, already part of the house

---------------------------------------------------------
Other window coverings
There are new window coverings made from a high tech fabric which allows light and visibility while protecting from winds enough to meet hurricane code.
Pros
-Permanent, doesn't require prep time,
Cons
-Must be installed by contractor or dealer.
-Few types of window films meet hurricane protection codes, but may give limited protection if properly installed.
There are also less expensive window panes, more along the lines of thick plastic security windows are about half the cost of layered panes, however they can be less then aesthetically satisfactory for home use as they scratch easily and fog in contact with common cleaning chemicals
Cost varies
Prep time varies
-----------------------------------------------------------
Plywood
plywood shutters do not meet most building codes, however many homeowners who lack more permanent shutters cover their homes with them. These are a use at your own risk type system.

Barrel-bolt plywood shutters
Use on concrete-block stucco homes that have windows inset at least two inches from the exterior wall.

Buy plywood ahead of time, before the rush. Make sure it is at least 5/8 of an inch thick.
Buy 3 or 4-inch barrel bolts, enough for one bolt for a minimum of every 12 inches of plywood.
Cut the plywood sheets to size for each window, allowing for a snug fit in the inset.
For larger windows or sliding doors, attach two pieces of plywood together with 2x4's or a piano hinge.
Attach bolts to plywood, mark where you need the holes to be drilled in the concrete stucco.
Drill holes, in marked spots in concrete stucco.
When storm approaches, fit plywood into the inset as tightly as possible. You don't want wind to get under the shutter.
Overlapping plywood shutters
If your windows do not have a 2-inch inset, plywood shutters can overlap.


Buy plywood ahead of time, before the rush. Make sure it is at least 5/8 of an inch thick.
Cut the plywood sheets to size for each window, allowing for an overlap of at least 4 inches. Label each panel.
Drill corresponding holes in the plywood and walls. Use a 1/4-inch drill bit for the wood. Use a masonry or carbide-tipped bit for concrete or stucco walls.
Hammer 1/4-inch lead sleeve anchors – not plastic – into the holes in the wall. The anchors should be at least 2 inches long.
When a hurricane threatens, use tapping screws at least 2 inches long to bolt the plywood in place.
Cost 1-5 dollars per square foot
prep time 1 - 1 1/2 hours per window.



Keep in mind that while these shutters will protect your windows, they are just one aspect of protecting a home completely. You ever hear the saying "a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link"
This applies to homes as well. If you have a concrete poured home, braced roof, doors, and shuttered windows, you are in a virtual bunker. However if you are in a wood frame home with termite damage, and a non code roof, windows should be the least of your worrys.




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#96998 - 06/08/07 05:57 PM Re: Hurricane shutters. Pros and Cons [Re: Black_Wulf]
Arney Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 2485
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Black_Wulf
I am going to cover the most popular type, pros and cons with each, their cost, and worktime needed for them.


Excellent post, great info.


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#97065 - 06/09/07 07:38 AM Re: Hurricane shutters. Pros and Cons [Re: Black_Wulf]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
Thanks for the info. I've placed a copy in my "prep tips" file for future reference.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#97155 - 06/11/07 01:27 PM Generators [Re: wildman800]
Black_Wulf Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 19
Loc: South Florida
NOTE THIS ARTICLE HAS CAUSED A BIT OF STRAY IN THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION, I HAVE EDITED THE PORTION BELOW WHICH HAS CAUSED THIS STRAY. 6/12/07 09:14

Generators are kind a luxury in terms of preperation, while they are make life easier, they are not necessary.



This guide will cover the types, fuels, usage, cost, advantages and disadvantages. It will also cover a few safety and security items involved with generators.



When you are looking to buy a generator, you have a few different options in terms of types, fueling, and wattage.



Generators will come in four types, two of them are well suited for home and business use. The other two are rather specialized use. The four types are portable, permanent “also known as standby”, rv “recreational vehicle”, and pto “power take off”.



Portable

The first type is portable. Portable generators can be used for a household, business, camping, and construction. These generators are normally within a frame of tubular steel, some have wheels, or wheel kits can be purchased separately. These generators can range from a few hundred watts to over 150 kilowatts “a kilowatt equals 1000 watts”.

These generators can be transported around as needed, some are even small enough to be carried by hand, or in the trunk of your car. The largest generators usually need to be transported by a truck, some are even on a built in trailer.



Pros

-Portability. These can be used as residential/business use, and you can also use them for camping or at construction sites.

-Convince. They can be stored when not needed and placed into service when the time comes.



Cons

-Required space. Due to their sheer size, storage may be an issue, especially in the larger ones. You should consider the amount of available space you have when looking.

-Security. Due to the portability of these, security is a very big issue. Security will be covered later in this article.

-Manual operation. When the power goes out, you need to start this generator manually either by pull cord or electric start.

Costs

Costs can vary widely based on the wattage, fuel, and brand. They can range from a few hundred dollars to over thirty thousand dollars.

Permanent standby

The second option are permanent standby generators. These are normally enclosed within a sheet metal body and must be permanently mounted. These generators range in wattages of a few thousand wattages in home standby to four hundred kilowatts in terms of commercial standby.



Pros

-Security. These generators must be bolted to a concrete pad, and the shell normally has locking access doors which help keep the bolts from being removed.

-Storage. Due to the fact that these generators must be mounted outside of the house on a concrete pad, you don’t loose storage space inside of your home or business.

-Ease of use. These generators are attached to the home or business’s utility service via transfer panels. Most of these generators have auto start features which turn them when the power fails, so you will only loose power for a minute or so at the most. They will also start for a few minutes either once a week, or month in order to keep everything lubricated, charge the battery, and to keep the fuel from going stale.

Cons

-Portability. These generators can’t be moved around, once they are set they can’t be ported to another location without some work. It’s not to say that they can’t be moved, but it takes quite a bit of work to do so.

-The pad. These generators must be installed on a concrete pad, and typically the pad will need to be poured by a contractor. Most towns and cities will require a permit as it is considered construction. If you live in an HOA community, they may also have additional restrictions.

-Transfer panel. These generators also require transfer panels which typically need to be installed by a licensed electrician, and may require the approval of your local utility company after it is installed.

Cost. Like portable generators, these generators vary widely in cost ranging from a few thousand dollars to more than thirty thousand.



The next two I am going to cover briefly as they are not ideal for standby generators.

RV

These generators are found on RV’s and campers. Some can be used to power items outside of the RV, but it is usually limited due to their size and wattage output.

Their wattage range from a few thousand watts to 12 kilowatts.
One good thing about RV generators, is due to their design and use, they tend to be very quiet.

PTO “Power take off”

These generators are used more commonly in construction or farm applications as they require either a tractor with a PTO or a diesel truck with a PTO capable transmission.

These generators range in wattages from a few thousand to over 75 kilowatts.





Fuel types

There are four general fuel types which are used, they are gasoline, diesel, lp “liquid propane” and natural gas.



Gasoline

Gasoline generators can range from a few hundred watts to 20+ kilowatts, gasoline is perhaps the most common fuel of portable generators as you can get gasoline pretty much anywhere. They can run on regular gas though they may not do to well on premium. Plus, once the emergency is over, you can use the gas in your car. Gasoline however has drawbacks, one being stability. Gasoline is rather volatile, meaning that it evaporates quickly, and ignites just as fast. Do not keep gasoline anywhere near open flames, or inside your home as it expel noxious fumes which create a large fire hazard.

This stability also causes other problems in terms of storage time. Gasoline can only be stored for a few months with out some sort of additive.

Diesel

Diesel is normally used for larger wattage generators, as diesel has a higher energy potential than gasoline. Diesel is also more stable then gasoline, and can be kept for up to a year without treatment. It is always a good idea however to filter the fuel if you are keeping it in storage for that long. To filter it, it should be pumped through a high quality diesel fuel filter a few times over to remove any particulate in the fuel as algae, bacteria, and fungus can find a pleasant home in diesel fuel.

Another good thing about diesel, is it’s stability. It is not as volatile as gasoline, which means it is not as much as a fire risk as gasoline, that doesn’t mean you can go and have a smoke next to stored tanks, you should use the same precautions as gasoline.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LP/Natural gas

Vapor type fuels such as LP and natural gas are commonly used in smaller permanent generators, the advantage they offer is they run much quieter than gasoline and diesel generators. You also have the advantage being able to use LP and Natural gas in grills, stoves, and water heaters if so equipped. Many portable generators are now tri-fuel meaning they can run off of LP, Natural gas, and gasoline. You can also find LP/Natural gas conversion kits for gasoline generators as well.









Safety and Security.

Remember, generators are engines, so the common sense of engines does apply, however I will cover them anyways.



Carbon Monoxide. CO is not a gas to mess around with, it is colorless, tasteless, and odorless. It is lighter than air, meaning it will fill the home from the top up. It can fill a house undetected within a few hours. The symptoms of CO poisoning are fatigue, muscle pains, upset stomach, lethargy, dizziness, and headaches.



Never run a generator inside of your house or garage. Make sure there are no open windows near the generator as exhaust fumes can enter.

If you do decide to use one, keep a few battery powered CO detectors around, you can they can save the life of you and your loved ones.



The fuel also adds an additional amount of hazard. Gasoline fumes are extremely flammable and toxic.



Security.

Portable generators are convenient, however it comes at a price, they are easy to steal.

Generator thefts go up during hurricane season as people want them for themselves or to sell. If you live in a hurricane prone area, and you see those guys on the corner selling them off the back of a truck, you can count of them being stolen.

The frame of portable generators allow for a good amount of security if you use it right. When in use, the generator should always be secured using a heavy steel cable or a heavy chain. The generator should be locked to something permanent and secure. The cable/chain can be run though the frame in such a way that it can’t be undone.

You should use a heavy duty padlock, such as a contractor grade padlock that either has a shroud, or a heavy disk lock. This way the shackle can’t be cut easily with bolt cutters or a hacksaw. If you decide to leave your home for any reason, “either for food/supplies, or to go to work” you should shut the generator off, let it cool down, and move it back inside where you can lock it up.


-----------------------------------------------------------------
THIS IS THE PORTION WHICH HAS CAUSED A BIT OF STRAY.

You should really consider that if someone really wants your generator, you shouldn’t risk your life over it. If your starting it, or refueling it and someone comes up to you with a gun saying “give me the generator” go ahead and give it to them. Your life isn’t worth it.

AS HAVE STATED IN MY REPLY, ALWAYS THINK THE SITUATION BEFOREHAND. YES THERE IS A POSIBILITY THAT YOU WILL TRIUMPH AND KEEP YOUR GENERATOR, THERE IS ALSO THE POSSIBILITY THAT YOU WILL BE KILLED AND LOSE YOUR GENERATOR. THERE IS ALSO THE POSSIBILITY THAT YOU WILL BE KILLED, THEN YOUR FAMILY WILL BE KILLED.
There are too many possibilitys and situations that can arrise from this, you can't just say "I will defend it, nor can you just say I will let it walk." The variations are too great to think of every single possibility. Remeber, at this point, you are responsible not only for yourself, but for those who you are trying to keep safe.
EDITED 6/12/07 09:22
-----------------------------------------------------------------





Buying a generator.

If you decide to buy a generator, there are a few things you should consider. First is where to buy. Don’t bother buying one from the guy on the corner who is selling them out of the back of a u-haul, first is you have no idea if it’s stolen or not, buying a stolen generator means receipt of stolen goods which is illegal. Second, you don’t know the history of the generator. It may look new, and it may have a bagged manual and everything, but who knows, he could have bought the manual from the supplier, and threw a fresh coat of paint on it. You could have a generator that has had over 3000+ hours of use on it and you would never even know it.



Buy one from a reputable dealer.



Your best option is to buy one off season, if you buy on season, there will be a high demand, and not much choice.



Big box stores also sell generators, but they are usually mid range brands. Even Wal-Mart may carry them from time to time. If you buy one, make sure it comes with a warranty.



Wattage. Northern Tool has a pretty comprehensive guide to wattage. Northern Tool Generator Guide

Another decent guide is from the Palm Beach Post's 2007 hurricane guide, Palm Beach County 2007 Hurricane Guide

Brands.

Just about every power equipment company makes generators now, Briggs and Stratton, Troy-Built, Husqvarna, Makita, DeWalt, Craftsman, Honda, Cummings, McCulloch, Mitsubishi, Yamaha, John Deere, even Coleman offers generators. There are many other brands which are primarily generator builders, such as Generac and Guardian, and Kohler



I only have experience with Kohler, Makita, and limited experience with Coleman generators.

Kohler’s tend to be the larger commercial type generators, with a good track record. I personally have a Makita which has served me reliably for three many seasons, and four actual storms, and shows no sign of quiting. I co-worker of mine has a Coleman which he decided to ditch after one storm, he kept blowing the breakers on a 5000 watt generator while only running a fridge and a few lights. The engine decided to quit soon after, he returned it and bought a Generac after.

Maintence.

Like any engine, it needs periodic maintence, you should run it at least once a month to keep everything lubricated. You will also need to change the oil and air filters every so often “the generator’s manual should say how often this should be done” A good idea is to look for one with a spin on automotive type filter, these increase the life of the oil, and reduce wear on the engine.





This is about all I can think of at the moment, it’s about 0500, and my brain is getting close to shutting me down by force.

If I think of anything else that I didn't cover hear, I will add it as a reply to this post.



If anyone can think of anything else to add, feel free to include it.


Edited by Black_Wulf (06/12/07 01:22 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarification

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#97158 - 06/11/07 01:59 PM Re: Generators [Re: Black_Wulf]
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
Some good info here. I have a Honda EU series 2000 Watt that I use on the RV. It runs everything except the AC. One neat thing about the Honda EU series is that you can hook 2 of them up in parallel for double the watts, so if I need AC on a trip I simply borrow my sister's. It only weighs about 50 lbs so it's easy on the back. The best thing about it is that it is quiet. By that I mean that you can stand next to it while it is running at full throttle and carry on a normal conversation. Try that with a Generac!

I found this quote interesting:

Quote:
You should really consider that if someone really wants your generator, you shouldn’t risk your life over it. If your starting it, or refueling it and someone comes up to you with a gun saying “give me the generator” go ahead and give it to them. Your life isn’t worth it.


I guess one could say the same thing about food, medicine, clothing, or shelter. My position is that I am going to be ready, willing, and hopefully able to defend my survival supplies and gear, and that includes my generator. It will be the thug who will have to decide whether my generator is worth his life. I would hope he would decide it isn't and move on, but if he doesn't I guarantee I'm not going to just give it to him.

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#97162 - 06/11/07 02:27 PM Re: Generators [Re: norad45]
Black_Wulf Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 19
Loc: South Florida
I wasen't too clear on that part was I. I had ment something more along the lines of, don't just hand it to them, of course one should way out the situation first. If he has a .22 pointed in your direction, and you have a 12Ga slung across your back, then by all means, drop to the floor and let er rip, you will win. I had ment that if it comes to a point where one of your neighbors was already shot, and someone on the next street was killed for theirs, it may not be a bad idea to let it go. Consider your prep situation, if not having the generator, how much will your life be inconvienced, if it's only a small amount, then you should gauge that to the extent that you defend your supplies.

Depending on the thug, the situation could change. For example someone who is trying to keep his family alive will be in the mindset of keeping himself alive, however a crackhead who has been told by his dealer "find me a generator, and I get you a fix" they may be in the state where they don't care what you have, they don't care how many holes you can put into them or how many holes you have already put into them. They want their fix. Always consider the situation, to aid in the defense stragity.

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