Greetings, <br><br>Well, since backpacking season is well underway, and I have an AT section hike coming up, I took some time to update and post my comprehensive HTML BOB / Backpacking Gear Checklist. It includes links to product web pages, item weights, and Altoids contents, of course. ;-) Maybe it can help you prepare your own checklist for such things. I'm somewhat experienced, but always welcome any advice. There's always room for improvement! Here's my page: http://www.roblester.com/rob/backpacking_gear_checklist.htm<br><br>Regards, <br>Rob

Rob, looks pretty similiar. I like the survival cheatsheet, I know others who will appreciate it. Thx. Have fun on the hike, what section are you doing?

We're starting out at Springer Mountain and we'll only be out for 2 nights this time.

Wow. Be safe and watch those ankles!

Rob: fwiw, I'm afraid I don't think much of your "first aid kit". Not one triangular bandage, field dressing, or gauze roller bandage; only a couple of small sterile dressings. You're better equipped to treat a head cold than you are to treat a broken ankle or severe gash.<br><br>Have you taken a first aid course lately?<br><br>I also note that you're carrying 3 pounds of food and approximately 2.6 pounds of stove and fuel. Seems a little out of whack to me, especially as most of your food seems to be in the form of ready-to-eat snacks that don't require cooking. Just an observation.<br><br><br>Hope I don't sound snotty or superior, just questioning why you made some of the choices you did.

Dear Aardwolf,<br><br>Firstly, I think you have missed the entire spirit of this forum. Your reply was totally uncalled for, as it was distinctly vitriolic. What is your point anyway? So what if he carries so much fuel and stove? Have you heard of hunting or fishing? Do you normally eat meat and fish raw? I, for one, am thankful that he actually took the trouble to share his very methodical system with us. If you cannot make a positive contribution, then don't respond at all.<br><br>Oh, and I hope I haven't sounded snotty or superior, just questioning the way you replied.

Many of us are much better at putting together a selection of gear that we are at putting together a well crafted public posting of our thoughts. It is a reasonable question "why carry so heavy a stove and fuel supply?" It is a reasonable answer "to cook found food." Some personalities are not given to mellow thought-out word crafting (or even re-reading before posting) <br><br>Survival in a written forum for both the poster and the forum requires a certain level of restraint and tolerance as well as a moderatly thick skin.<br><br>Take care folks that this forum doesn't sink in the mire for flame wars and bickering. Choose carefully the words you use and think twice before taking offense, please.

Aardwolf and Thor, MELLOW! This is a tough medium to communicate in. We all come across a little rough at times. Sandpaper tongues rarely smooth out those comments ;O)

Hi, <br><br>No sweat, fellas. I welcome all input, even if the tone is presumptuous. I'm always willing to learn. Let me clarify: I don't carry something specifically called a "triangular bandage," because I carry 2 large bandanas that serve that purpose. The sterile dressing I include is what you call "field dressing" and yes, I'm competent with first aid, and have treated other people's injuries quite effectively, even when they have surpassed that of a head cold. I also know my limitations, and don't carry sutures, scalpels and the like because I'm not trained to use them and would probably do more harm than good. If I have a injury more severe that I can treat with my supplies, then I need my hiking partner to help me get to a hospital ASAP. <br><br>As far as the food to fuel ratio, I sometimes cook for more than one person, so we really don't carry more fuel than we need. I agree that the WhisperLite is not the lightest stove out there, but I've never had any complaints about its performance.

gear freak,<br><br>I could not agree more about the stove choice. I use both the MSR Whisperlite and the original multifuel (G/K?) stoves. I find both to have been completely reliable, have great performance and most importantly are easily field maintainable. Only once have I had to repair my G/K in the field, (really dirty kerosene), and it took me about 5 minutes before I was cooking at full roar once again.<br><br>There are many reasons to carry surplus fuel for such stoves, big time tea drinking, melting snow, hot chocolate for the entire Boy Scout troop you find by the lake....boiling up water after you have broken your leg, and waiting for your companion and the SAR team to arrive...

>>Firstly, I think you have missed the entire spirit of this forum. <br><br>Isn't it to share ideas and opinions? Or would you prefer we turn it into a mutual admiration society?<br><br>>>Your reply was totally uncalled for, <br><br>I disagree. As a First Aid instructor, I seriously question the value of a "first aid kit" which has three kinds of painkiller, but only 2 small sterile dressings. <br><br>>>as it was distinctly vitriolic. <br><br>I thought I went out of my way to point out that it was only an opinion.<br><br>>>What is your point anyway? So what if he carries so much fuel and stove? <br><br>Hey, it's his back that's going to be carrying it, not mine. I personally felt that 3 pounds of food was a little light for a 3 day backpacking trip. Besides, if you're going to lug around a stove that weighs 2.5 pounds, why not carry something a little more palatable than bagels, Pop-Tarts and Clif Bars? ;-)<br><br>>>I, for one, am thankful that he actually took the trouble to share his very methodical system with us. <br><br>As am I. But if this forum is to mean anything, then we should all be free to take issue with what appears to be bad advice. The advice may be bad; or it may not be bad, in which case I'll admit I made a mistake. It's no big deal; I've made mistakes before and I'll make them again. But if I err, then I prefer to err on the side of caution.<br><br>Now, gear freak (Rob) has pointed out that he does carry two "triangular bandages" - he just calls them bandannas and doesn't carry them in his FA kit. That's a legitimate response. He also says he carries a Field Dressing; again, I saw no mention of this, and a search of the web page for the word "dressing" did not find one. <br><br>He does mention the bandannas, and suggests that they can be used, among other things, as "tourniquets". If he's taken a first aid course in the last 25 years, he should know that tourniquets are not recommended. Maybe his choice of words means something, maybe it doesn't. I personally suspect that he knew this, and that he just wrote down the first words that came into his head. But I also think it's a mistake he might want to correct, especially if he wants to impress people who do understand first aid, or avoid misleading those who don't.<br><br>Regardless, I still don't think much of his first aid kit. 2 small sterile dressings are next to useless if you have a serious injury, IMO. How much would a half dozen 4x4 gauze dressings weigh? I've treated a simple case of road rash on a cyclist who went into the ditch (he was literally blown off his bicycle by the wake from a passing motorhome) - a 2x2 dressing wouldn't have come close to covering the wound. And his injuries were quite minor. <br><br>>>If you cannot make a positive contribution, then don't respond at all.<br><br>Sorry, I thought possibly saving someone's life by pointing out the inadequacies of a recommended first aid kit was a "positive contribution". (And that *was* meant to sound snotty and superior ;-)<br><br>Again, thanks to Rob for sharing his checklist. It's a very good starting point. I just happen to have questioned some of his choices, that's all.

LOL. I have re-read your post a dozen times. Nope.....it definitely had an edge to it. It was a tad brusque. There is a distinct difference between making a positive contribution, or providing a genuine opinion and the way you "contributed". In other words, it is more how you said what you said.<br><br>I was not going to respond further, but heck, I decided not to let you have the final say. LOL.

Aardwolf,<br> Thanks for completing your thoughts this last post provides a good deal more information than your first. I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience with the cyclist and your reasons for wanting more bandages in a FAK. This is the sort of good information sharing that I have come to expect from your other participation in this forum. <br><br>Lets keep this from becoming personal - eh?

MiniMe and Thor - I never meant to make it "personal", and I'm sorry I came off sounding that way. In hindsight, I have to admit that my original post was "brusque"; maybe Rob just accidentally pushed one of my buttons. Sorry that the tone of my post obscured the intent.<br><br>Anyway, I've offered my opinion, fwiw. No point in belabouring the issue anymore. Thanks to Rob for putting together the kit list and posting the link in the first place, and for being so understanding in the second place. :-)

Hi everyone, <br><br>At this point, I'll say that I never shy away from scrutiny or critique, and thus, I'll be supplementing my first aid supplies with some larger sterile dressings. I think maybe I have a false sense of confidence due to the fact that I have have never sustained a serious injury throughout hundreds of miles of hiking and mountain biking. This is the result of a combination of some skill and much luck. Obviously, that is no excuse for not including those items for unforseen circumstances. Preparing for unforseen circumstances is the very spirit of this forum, and I recognize that. I understand that a tourniquet is a last resort that should only be used on a life-threatening, severe hemorrhage that cannot be controlled by other means, such as when large arteries are severed. As such, I'll remove the casual reference to using the bandana as a tourniquet, and instead offer its use as a cravat bandage or sling, or to cover a bandage compress.<br><br>As for the stove, I've already stated that I'm often carrying the stove for more people that just myself, and thus the extra fuel. If I'm going solo in 3-season weather, I'll probably use something simpler and more lightweight, like an Esbit stove and fuel tablets. Thanks to everyone for their input.

gear_freak: First of all, many thanks for seeing past the "knee-jerk" tone of my original post.<br><br>I wasn't going to say anything, but if I might make one more suggestion, you may want to consider a roller-gauze bandage or two. They weigh almost nothing, and they have multiple uses.<br><br>I should clarify that I did not perform immediate first-aid on the cyclist I mentioned; we were manning the travelling first aid post and were several miles away when the accident happened. The cyclist was taken to hospital by a passing motorist. (He had ripped all the skin off his forearm from the wrist to the elbow.) However, he did come by the first aid post to have his dressing changed that evening, and again the next morning. I put a fresh dressing on his arm and used liberal amounts of tape to hold it in place. The next morning, the other first aider (Bob, who's been a Saint John Ambulance volunteer for over 30 years) replaced the dressing and used a roller gauze bandage to hold it in place. Much more professional looking, much more comfortable (as the bandage flexed with the arm, whereas the tape pulled on the skin) and much easier to remove (especially for a guy with hairy arms). A roller gauze bandage also makes a usable substitute for a Tensor bandage, if necessary.<br><br>One more thing that Bob taught me, which I'll pass on fwiw - when applying a roller bandage, place the OUTSIDE of the bandage roll next to the skin and ROLL it on. (By the outside, I mean if it was a roll of tape it would be the non-sticky side.) Most people try to put it on as if it were tape; however, doing this they have a natural tendency to stretch it too much and this could impair circulation. I'll let Beachdoc or Paramedicpete correct me if this is wrong.<br><br>Other than that, I'll shut up. :-)

OW! Dammit! I should have checked your updated web site before I posted - you've already got gauze roller bandage in there. Mea culpa.<br><br>It may not be relevant to your situation, but if you don't have a real preference between Tylenol and Aspirin, the latter has other uses besides being a painkiller. Some authorities recommend giving aspirin/ASA to frostbite victims *in certain circumstances*; as aspirin is a blood-thinner, the theory is that 2 aspirin tablets will improve circulation to the damaged tissues.<br><br>(Okay, so I lied about shutting up. Sorry )-;

Hi Aardwolfe,<br><br>No problem. Thanks for the additional suggestions and the tip about applying the gauze roller bandage. I'll admit I hadn't thought of the different methods of application. I probably would have done a very amateur job of it, especially on the hairy-armed guy. (rrrrriiip!!) <br><br>Good one about the aspirin, too. I personally prefer Ibuprofin for getting rid of my own headaches and muscle aches, but aspirin seems more universally useful. Can it be used on someone exhibiting the signs of of a heart attack? If so, what would the dosage be on a 150 lb. adult male? I'm afraid I don't know much about frostbite here in the temperate southeastern U.S. (Georgia). We hardly get one day of snow per year. :)<br>

>>Good one about the aspirin, too. I personally prefer Ibuprofin for getting rid of my own headaches and muscle aches, but aspirin seems more universally useful. Can it be used on someone exhibiting the signs of of a heart attack? If so, what would the dosage be on a 150 lb. adult male? <br><br>Wow. Colour me embarrassed - I didn't know the answer to that and had to check with a couple of the more experienced instructors. <br><br>In Alberta, at least, aspirin can be administered to someone exhibiting the symptoms of a heart attack. If they have no medication, or if they've taken their medication and it has not been effective, we can administer 1 regular adult tablet (or 2 children's tablets, if you can still buy childrens' aspirin) - approximately 300 mg. They should chew it and let it dissolve in the mouth, not swallow it like they would for a headache.<br><br> The workbook says nothing about giving a second dose if the first tablet is not effective. I checked with one of the other instructors, who's also a trained paramedic; he says he would not give a second dose.<br><br>So the short answer would be: 1 regular adult tablet, chewed not swallowed, to be administered only after their prescription medication (if any) has been taken and been ineffective.<br><br>I would check with the Red Cross or some other agency about the regulations in your area. For example, in Alberta, I can administer aspirin (for a heart attack, not for a headache :-) - but an EMR couldn't, because the Alberta College of Paramedics would revoke their certification. (I'm just a lowly First Aid instructor, so I'm not registered with the College of Paramedics. :-)