I EDC a mini-Rittergrip which, of course, has a S30V blade. I bought my 10 year old daughter a Kabar Dozier Spearpoint with an AUS 8A blade. Both with 15 degree blade angle. Since my daughter doesn't carry the Kabar around with her, we keep it in a drawer next to my family room chair, where it has seen quite a bit of use.

Both knives are used a lot. The Rittergrip probably gets more abuse since it is in my pocket all the time. They're both used for opening boxes, breaking down boxes, cutting open that nasty plastic packaging, etc. In addition, the Rittegrip gets lots of outdoor use cutting wood (not battoning - just slicing branches, whittling, and such) while camping.

OK, so I KNOW that both knives were sharpened at the same time using a Spyderco Sharpmaker. Now, months later, while cutting tags off some luggage my wife bought, I couldn't help but notice that the Kabar was getting dangerously dull. I pulled out the Rittergrip to finish the job and was pleased that the Rittergrip is still quite sharp - though not quite as sharp as it was right after sharpening.

S30V seems to have gotten a bad reputation in the knife/blade forums.

Some have had chipping problems, but I've not seen that on any of my three S30V Ritter knives (mini Mk1, regular Mk1, & Mk3).

Some have said that S30V is hard to sharpen, but it is a piece of cake with the Sharpmaker. I hightly recommend a Sharpmaker if you don't already have one.

Some say the edge durability of S30V isn't all that much different than other steels, but now I KNOW that the durability of S30V is substantially better than the AUS 8A.

Some have voice frustration at the high cost of the Ritter knives, but much of that price is due to use of the higher end S30V steel. Now I know it is all well worth the price.

Hi Ken,
Yes the S30V will hold the edge longer and if it got really dull you might need the diamond rods the get the edge back. But if you use the Sharpmaker to touch it up frequently it will keep a razor edge a long time.
I used my Mini RSK a lot and at the time I did not have a Sharpmaker; it got a dull edge that was made worse by my inconsistent hand sharpening. I brought it to a local knife shop (BM dealer) and they ground a new edge with a belt; it is now again like new.

Aus 8 is a great inexpensive steel. I will never hesitate buying a knife made of Aus 8 as well as 440C and a few others.

S30V is a great steel but many other common steels used on quality knives are quite acceptable.

S30V is *potentially* a higher performance steel than AUS-8. But whether it will perform to its fullest potential depends on the heat treatment. This goes for all steels. If the heat treatment is absolutely right it will bring out the best properties in steel. If not, even a very high grade steel will perform worse than a mediocre one that has been heat treated correctly.

Then there are other factors. If the blade is tempered to a higher hardness (say, 59-62HRC) it will take and hold a better edge but it might become fragile and possibly chip when stressed. Tempering it on the soft side (55-57HRc) will made the blade tougher and capable of taking more stress without breaking, but the edge holding properties will suffer considerably.

This is directly related to blade length and profile. A shorter blade may be tempered harder as it is less likely to break simply because there is less leverage. A longer blade, especially one made for chopping, should be tempered softer. As for blade profile, a thicker bevel is going to be stronger than a thin one (self explanatory). But what a lot of people don't realize is that a blade made of properly heat treated high performance steel can be ground significantly thinner without the risk of breaking or chipping during use while it will also cut a lot better because it meets less resistance in the cutting medium than a thicker blade.

Stainless steels vary a great deal. Many are less than ideal for heavy duty cutlery. Virtually all have the tendency to chip or break much more easily than low alloyed carbon steels such as 5160, L7 or even 1095 and W2. Hence stainless is generally not a good choice for longer blades. Personally I would consider 440C to be the minimum for a good blade. 420 in all forms is not acceptable for a serious utility blade. I would avoid AUS-6 but AUS-8 should be ok. S30V should be better but I don't have any experience with it. 154CM and VG-10 are very good steels, too. But again, it depends on other factors as noted (edge profile and heat treatment).

All common cutlery steels can be sharpened fairly easily once you get to know them more intimately, though some are more finnicky than others and some just won't take such a fine edge because their grain structure is coarser. But you have to pick the right tool for the job. Water stones are less than perfect for stainless. Synthetic stones are generally ok. One cheap and quite effective solution is sandpaper (lubricate with oil rather than water for best results). Of course a diamond sharpener will work on the hardest stainless.

Some excellent notes there about steel used for knife use from Tom_L. Stainless Steels are used in preference to low alloy carbon steels mainly due to their abilities to resist corrosion. Corrosion resistance is also important to many and the higher carbon value stainless steels corrode more than the lower carbon valued stainless steels. S30V, 154CM and VG10 are all excellent for knife making. The 'lower' specification knives made from AUS6, AUS8 and 440C just need sharping a bit more often even though they are tougher but not as tough as a TI6AL-4V titanium alloy knife (holds an edge even less than the stainless steels but all the stainless steels mentioned are nowhere as corrosion resistant). Loose one material property gain another!! This is why there is Damascus Cowry composite steel.
This is why I like the knives produced by Helle and Fallkniven where they use a laminate construction. Generally a plate of VG10 sandwiched between outside steels of 18/8 stainless in the case of Helle knifes, which is tougher and more corrosion resistant. The VG10 having a rockwell hardness of greater than 59. I think they represent excellent value in a modern knife. Fallknivens Super Gold Powder Steel technology looks interesting also.
I think your right about the minimum spec being the 440C also.
As for low alloy steel, I remember the days trying to cut and file down Reynolds 753 cycle tubing. A simple low alloy steel but with finely controlled heat treatment. Talk about being tough and hard, that is the steel I mean.

I certainly cannot disagree with anything said above, just ad to it...

There is alot of hulabaloo over which steel is better, whether it's S30V, VG-10, 154CM, A2, M2, etc etc. There are undoubtedly differences between each steel, some are substantial. ...but the plain fact is: unless you have access to several knives made from different steels, AND use them constantly (almost to the point of "testing" them), AND some of the knives are of the same steel, there really is no way for the average user to qualify the differences between the steels. That is not to argue that you didn;t notice the difference between your AUS-8 blade and the S30V...you certainly did. But the point is that you may have an AUS-8 blade with an improper heat treatment or sloppy alloy content and another AUS-8 blade that was manufactured correctly. Each will show different edge-wear properties.

I have several knives in different steels, to include S30V (but not AUS-8). Just when I think I've found that one blade holds an edge longer than another, I find myself proved wrong the next time they're sharpened and used again. I'm not a scientist or metallurgist, and I'm not striving to be either. I've just decided that most of the steels used in higher-end knives are going to be just fine, and I won;t really be able to tell the difference between one or the other.... at least not "honestly".

About the only "honest" assessment I feel confident in making is: my two D-2 steel blades are the hardest things I have to sharpen, and I'm pulling my hair out trying to get a "razor" edge on them. ANd when I get them as sharp as I can, while they hold their edges well, I can;t say "wow, this stuff really holds its edge a long time!". I just can't do it.

That's a pretty good point. As far as the average Joe is concerned, any decent knife made of reasonably good steel will do the job. For most people the difference between high performance steels is basically academic. Not so when we're talking about the more discriminate user, however. Even a relatively minor difference in hardness or wear resistance can have a significant impact on performance when you use a blade regularly.

I work a lot with hand tools (traditional crafts) and I have definitely developed my own personal preferences in regard to blade steels. I feel my preferences are based quite objectively, too. For instance, I love laminated Japanese carving tools because the high carbon steel layer is very pure and takes an incredibly fine edge. Then I have a set of chisels made of high speed steel (HSS) hardened to about 63HRc. Which is wicked hard and lasts a very long time. After several days of hard work those chisels will still shave hair better than a disposable razor blade. For a longer blade I would look no further than 5160 spring steel. Good cutting performance and excellent toughness.

Funny that you mention D2. My experience is pretty similar - good wear resistance but difficult to sharpen and won't take a fine edge. Once you move up to higher grade stainless steels the difference becomes less obvious but it's still apparent. My Spyderco's VG-10 will outlast the blades on my SAK by a considerable margin. Comparing VG-10 to 440C there is still a perceptible difference, though a lot less once you get in the range of S30V and 154CM.

I'm actually thinking it might be just the opposite.

Take my wife for example. She'd continue to use that dull Kabar blade until it's sharpness resembled that of a butter knife (she does that with kitchen knives); whereas, I will notice that its gotten dull and take the Sharpmaker to it.

If I'm forced to use the Kabar AUS 8A knife, it WILL be sharp all the time, though I'll have to sharpen it more often.

If my wife is using an S30V Rittergrip, she'll have a sharper safer knife much longer.

Ken

well a good knife user will keep it's knife sharp. I always check mine knife and resharpen them after some use, so they will be sharp all the time.

Only exception is my utility knife, which i use for cutting cardboard and plastic straps. Thats just a simple cheap that ises replacible blade's. You know the type, which you can brake and thus explosing a new piece of sharp blade. I'm to lazy to keep on sharping knifes for cardboard. Although i haven't use them much, since quite mine old job.

I use a Superknife for those ugly jobs. When it gets dull just change the blade. Speaking of razors, with knives such as the Ka-Bar Mule I keep a working edge and don't thin it too much. It's less susceptible to edge rolling. Tough knife, good price.

Yep, along with type of metal, edge life also depends on profile and use. My Mule came out of the box fairly sharp, but the edge profile may be too thin to hold up. The higher hardness steels generally take a tighter edge and still last long enough to not be a pain. For the softer metals, the more common stainless stuff, it may be more practical to open the shoulders of the edge up more. For less than $50, that Mule is plenty of knife. It has an AUS 8A blade that is properly tempered, and my testing on it said that it should work just fine as a general duty utility knife, albeit I will need to sharpen it from time to time.

In this case, I must admit a weakness. I grew up sitting next to Grandad watching him work on his pocketknives (Bucks and Cases) every weekend. He'd pull the stones out and sit at the dining table and work them over for a few minutes. Nowadays, I find that sitting in front of the TV I tend to have a knife or two at hand and the stones and strops out. I don't get excessive about it, but every so often I will take a pass or two. I reckon I could do the same thing at work once in a while when I am sitting in those damnedable teleconference meetings and someone is rattling on and on about their little projects and I've got the mute button on and trying to keep from falling asleep... well, you get the idea.

I guess keeping a couple fine/Xfine stones in my EDC is just good practice. Funny how I will extol an inexpensive, relatively low end knife like the Mule in one breath, and then talk about my $450 Busse knives being all that and a bucket of chicken in the next moment. Busse steel has got to be some of the best knife metal out there these days. It is always a contest between the frugal in me and the "I must have the best" side. I suppose it may be that way for a few of us.

I've yet to play with any VG-10 or S30V, but I am sure that sooner or later I am gonna see something that is just the thing for that time of the day or some such. Ultimately, though, I think it is best for us to recognize the limitations of the tools we acquire and use and be mindful of using them correctly. Then we will get true value from what we have.