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#95496 - 05/24/07 05:58 PM shark reproduce asexually
picard120 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 763
Scientists have found disturbing trend of Sharks reproducing asexually in captivity. This behavior only occurs for species under severe threat in natural habitat. I am an avid nature lover hence I find this development to be serious threat to mankind.

If humans continue to wreck havoc to nature at this rate, we will see new mutant species evolving in nature. The food chain will be severely altered that direct impact on human population. I got the link to the study. This is legitimate study that isn't sponsor by CNN fellow members.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/05/23/virgin.sharks.ap/index.html

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#95504 - 05/24/07 06:55 PM Re: shark reproduce asexually [Re: picard120]
Frank2135 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 266
Loc: Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: picard120
If humans continue to wreck havoc to nature at this rate, we will see new mutant species evolving in nature. The food chain will be severely altered that direct impact on human population.


My paleontology and biology are not what they need to be to comment fully on this, but I doubt it, to be honest with you. The human impact on the global environment can be measured in a couple of centuries at best. Mutations occur spontaneously all the time. Most are non-beneficial, and the animals carrying the mutant gene are eliminated by natural selection (they get eaten). Those mutations that aid survival are sometimes passed on to succeeding generations and gradually become a dominant genetic trait, and thus a species evolves, or so the theory goes. It takes thousands of years, however.
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#95513 - 05/24/07 09:37 PM Re: shark reproduce asexually [Re: picard120]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
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Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Was a bright star seen shining over the shark's cage?

And lo, a messiah was born and he had VERY sharp teeth...

-Blast
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#95519 - 05/24/07 10:27 PM Re: shark reproduce asexually [Re: picard120]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
Scientists have found disturbing trend of Sharks reproducing asexually in captivity. This behavior only occurs for species under severe threat in natural habitat.


Hold on there Chicken Little. First, even the article you quoted states that every major vertebrate group (insects, fish, birds, reptiles, anphibians, snakes, etc) do this. The only type that hasn't been found to do this are mammals.

Second: One shark in captivity does not make a "trend", nor should something already known to occur in nature qualify as "disturbing" (Ironraven excluded ;)).

Three: As for this being seen only in captive animals, think about this logically for a second. How could we see this in nature? We don't DNA match every creature's birth. It could be happening all the time in nature, We just wouldn't notice.

Four: The article also states that this is may be a way for creatures to adapt to harsh conditions. This suggests it is a trait that has evolved in animals. In other words, it has happened many times before. Life does not spontaneously mutate to to develop new traits in response to it's environment. Life mutates randomly and if this new trait helps it survive then the trait is passed on.

Maybe you should hold off reading the news for a while...

-Blast


Edited by Blast (05/24/07 11:28 PM)
Edit Reason: added more thoughts
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#95534 - 05/25/07 01:37 AM Re: shark reproduce asexually [Re: Blast]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
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Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Oh, I don't know Blast. If I reproduce AT ALL, it will disturb me. If I do so without help, it explains the handbasket.

WARNING: If your kids are watching over your shoulder, you might have to explain this to them. JIM, I think you can handle it. smile

Personally, I wouldn't want to go poking and prodding a shark's sensitive bits, but true hermaphrodites do occur in mammals so I don't see why other vertebrates wouldn't have it occasionally happen either. And not just the sex change thing that some reptiles and amphibians, but actually functional male and female reproductive structures. Rare as hell, but it has been observed.

If both sets of organs are fully functional, with the way fish reproduce, a shark that is a shim could fertilize itself. I suppose it would be possible for mammals that posses the same mutation to have this happen, but the flexibility required boggles the mind, to put it politely. Odds are this offspring will be loaded with recessive genes. I wouldn't dissect either one, yet, but I would certainly put them in their own tank. Anyone know how to run a CAT or MRI on a shark? I'd love to get a look at their innards without disassembly, just to see if (a) this happens again (which rules out the theories about something fairly normal but still odd happening) or if (b) either shark starts to have health issues.

Now, is this genetic quirk likely to pass on? Doubtful. I wouldn't get your britches in a bunch Picard. I'd just stare in awe at the wonders of the universe and the stuff that makes you "huh" when the sideshow is in town.
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#95538 - 05/25/07 01:49 AM Re: shark reproduce asexually [Re: ironraven]
picard120 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 07/10/05
Posts: 763
Originally Posted By: ironraven
Oh, I don't know Blast. If I reproduce AT ALL, it will disturb me. If I do so without help, it explains the handbasket.

WARNING: If your kids are watching over your shoulder, you might have to explain this to them. JIM, I think you can handle it. smile

Personally, I wouldn't want to go poking and prodding a shark's sensitive bits, but true hermaphrodites do occur in mammals so I don't see why other vertebrates wouldn't have it occasionally happen either. And not just the sex change thing that some reptiles and amphibians, but actually functional male and female reproductive structures. Rare as hell, but it has been observed.

If both sets of organs are fully functional, with the way fish reproduce, a shark that is a shim could fertilize itself. I suppose it would be possible for mammals that posses the same mutation to have this happen, but the flexibility required boggles the mind, to put it politely. Odds are this offspring will be loaded with recessive genes. I wouldn't dissect either one, yet, but I would certainly put them in their own tank. Anyone know how to run a CAT or MRI on a shark? I'd love to get a look at their innards without disassembly, just to see if (a) this happens again (which rules out the theories about something fairly normal but still odd happening) or if (b) either shark starts to have health issues.

Now, is this genetic quirk likely to pass on? Doubtful. I wouldn't get your britches in a bunch Picard. I'd just stare in awe at the wonders of the universe and the stuff that makes you "huh" when the sideshow is in town.


this shark isn't a hermaphodite. It is a complete female. the mutation occurred on the genes. That's why it is so disturbing. Komodo dragon also recently reproduce the same method. Scientists confirmed that the female off spring had no paternal DNA at all. This is unprecedent mutation in nature. It isn't freak event. Other species are beginning to show such mutation. These mutations weaken the gene pool of all species.

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#95547 - 05/25/07 02:25 AM Re: shark reproduce asexually [Re: picard120]
DBAGuy Offline
dedicated member

Registered: 03/02/04
Posts: 165
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
Quote:
Scientists confirmed that the female off spring had no paternal DNA at all. This is unprecedent mutation in nature. It isn't freak event. Other species are beginning to show such mutation


Dude, this is not the first time this has happened. This is the first time it was observed. This is actually common among fish.

Some fish also change from female to male in response to appropriate stimuli.

It isnt the end of days, just an iteresting phenomenon.

The shark had no males around, so it reproduced without them. Thats all.
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#95549 - 05/25/07 02:35 AM Re: shark reproduce asexually [Re: picard120]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
Other lizards, in time of stress, reproduce asexually, including some related to the Komodo. Smaller, less likely to eat you, but related. *shrugs* Their population is shrinking, their habitat is getting hammered, sounds pretty stressed to me. It is no way unprecedented, it's been observed for a while. And you're right, it isn't optimal, but it allows a species to continue to have a gene pool.

It isn't happening in large numbers. It is being reported becuase we have the ability to do genetic analysis now. It's the classical "if a tree falls and there is no one to hear it" hypothesis. Based on your logic, then no, it did not make noise prior to the development of audio recording devices, and other trees might not make noise now when they fall if there is no human or human-made sensor around.

But lets think about it. It appears to have happened. Before we assume it has happened, a genetic assay is required to rule out other equally remote possibilities based on normal reproduction among sharks. If there is no other theory that is viable after that, then it happened. Big deal, it is a scientific oddity. Now, keep in mind, if a species that has no bones but only cartilage and never gets cancer can do this, maybe we can figure out how it happened, and see if it can be used to repair cartilage in certain forms arthritis, and maybe even regulate some illnesses that involve the hardening of soft tissues or how to get cancer cells to stop reproducing and wandering about.

It isn't something to panic over, chicken little, it is something that if it happened could open amazing possibilities.

As for the shark not being a hermaphrodite, are we sure? I don't know how to tell a skirt from a kilt with sharks, do you?

*pats picard on the head* Take a deep breath, and stop worrying. I'd get worried if multiple incidents among closely related species were involved, or if a few hundred extra Great Whites appeared off Miami Beach out of no where. Particularly with laser beams strapped to their heads and bibs that have humans on them. At the risk of sounding nasty, Picard, are you are afraid you're being rendered obsolete? smile
_________________________
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When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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#95584 - 05/25/07 02:34 PM Re: shark reproduce asexually [Re: ironraven]
Misanthrope Offline
Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 156
Loc: Chicago burbs
Hell, after having two kids, the Bride was pretty much matter of fact about my obsolescence, other than bringing home a pay check and household chores.

M
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