We were hiking this weekend with my Troop, and stumbled (not so accidentally) across a primitive area in the woods. There were two old signs posted, one gave us hope:



I'm ready to go find this George Washington guy, sounds like he has a couple of good ideas

Then, a post that reminded us why the first sign was there:



It's about those dangerous "subjects" old George refers to in his Proclamation. You know, those dangerous men from Boston to Virginia. I wonder what they'd have to say about our state of affairs in this country today. Anyway, it turned into a great teachable moment with the boys about American history. One of them asked where the "Founding Fathers" lived now... (public education)

At the bottom, it says something like: "In the Sixteenth Year of the reign of our Sovereign Lord George the Third, By the Grace Of God of Great-Britain, France, and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, and so forth."

That was one heck of a title, I love that "and so forth" at the end.

Did any decide to join up?

If they thought they'd get to shoot more targets at the rifle range, they'd enlist right now I think!

A Proclamation, by The King
http://www.founding.com/library/lbody.cfm?id=97&parent=17
lots of other great documents on this site


Recruitment poster
http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/youasked/047.htm

"When the government is not for the people it is then the right of the people to take over the government, after all the people ARE the governemt"... Ponce

Remember that the US constitution GIVES YOU THE RIGHT to take over the government.

Even though the BANANAS REPUBLICS don't have the same constitution as we do that's exactly what they do.

I think that the days are past whereby an overthrow of our government by its citizens is possible. It seems the only plausible way to effect change in our government these days is to elect politicians, and not enough people are willing to vote for enough radicals because, in the end, you just can't trust anyone anymore, and it is a safer thing to perpetuate the party line than to risk putting someone like Ross Perot into the big chair.

We have lost our way, and I don't see any way we can get it back. As a society, if not a civilization, we sold out a long time ago. Ben Franklin's prediction has become a reality. This is still a great nation, but we are on the downslope side of the curve.

I have no hope for us, only to make the best of what is left, until it too is gone. My one desire is that the remnant will last longer than I do. I fear for my children.

Well said, I couldn't agree with you more!

I also have concerns about keeping the hope of a bright future alive in a time when the press and many of our politicians seem embarrased to be Americans. Still, I believe that we will find our way, as we always have. I can't say that I know how, or who will lead, but, I guess I still like our chances.

I read a quote to the boys, when we were studying for their Citizenship in the Nation merit badge. (That was part of this whole hike into the "primitive area" idea last weekend). It was the end of a major address back in 1974, a time when many American's were not feeling very good about our country or it's institutions, much like today. The situations weren't exactly the same, but, they rhyme. (I took the quote from one of Bill Bennett's books on American History.)
-------

We are not a sick society. A sick society could not produce the men that set foot on the moon, or who are now circling the Earth above us in the Skylab. A sick society bereft of morality and courage did not produce the men who went through those years of torture and captivity in Vietnam. Where did we find such men? They are typical of this land as the Founding Fathers were typical. We found them in out streets, in the offices, the shops and the working places of our country and on the farms.

We cannot escape out destiny, nor should we try to do so. The leadership of the free world was thrust upon us two centuries ago in that little hall of Philadelphia. In the days following World War II, when the economic strength and power of America was all that stood between the world and the return to the dark ages, Pope Pius XII said, "The American people have a great genius for splendid and unselfish actions. Into the hands of America God has placed the destinies of an afflicted mankind."

We are indeed, and we are today, the last best hope of man on Earth.
Ronald Reagan 1974

It was worth repeating.

-Blast, hat off & hand over heart.

A few years ago, -the Thought has occurred to me, -that "Washigton and Lincoln looks down upon us / U.S..-Do they Smile or FROWN!?".

Your Post and Thought gives me the Perfect occassion to segway into this.

From such, -just imagine Washington *again* being Present here upon our Scene!

He'd of course be Filled with his old, seeminly (to us), Archaic, Old Fogey ways! He, -*Still* Holding the Rank of "General of the Army", -and as such, except for our C in C, -the Highest Ranking Officer in our Free Forces Defense, -He'd certainly have to be brought up to Speed on Apaches and Blackhawks, F-18 Hornets, and Tomahawk Cruises! Among so much similar else.

But regarding much of our National "Spirit" *behind* it all!, -He may have some Really Stern Looks and Words!, -for us all!!! In our Knowing so much of all the Technical Nuts and Bolts behind it all! But often All Too Little!, -of the "Spirit of 76" that Stands *Behind* it all!

He may so Remind us / U.S. that as such, -*we* could be Heading to *another* Valley Forge! -Valley Forge Hardships! Of which he is certainly only all too Well Qualified to Know something about!

And a Valley Forge set of Hardships that we Really *Don't* Have to!, -come to Find ourselves in!...-If Only we'd but "Do the Right Thing"!

I Shudder at such Embarrassing Chastisement! as he may so Give!

What a Morale Boost!, -his Prescence would be to us / U.S.! In these Times and Circumstances of ours!

But also *accompanied* by such Bitter Pill as I speak of! And an "egg" that *we* only quite Self-Shamedly laid for ourselves!, -at that!

Come On!, -Lets DO Ourselves and Good Ole George!, -One Better of Ourselves than that! (Like an old Shampoo commercial I saw in the early to mid 60s as a kid, -"*Don't* Wait to be Told!,..."),-Most Embarrassingly have to be Told! If we Don't Know some of the First Things that we're at least Suppossedly All About!, -some of "Freedom's 101s"!,...-Then I just Sadly Shake my Head! "Sad Commentary on us / U.S.!...

I find myself beginning to tread dangerously into some political waters now, -and so shall now Depart. I happen to have so said my Peace anyway.

With the exception of one more little thing!

Which is, -Wouldn't it have been Great!, -if say 4 Modern Day American Fighters, -could suddenly find themselves Time Warped back onto the Scene! Of one of our Key Revolutionary War Battles! And in Knowing that those are Washington and his Fellow American Forces below, -scream in and Lay All they've Got! Onto our then British Enemy (Tis a Regrettable Shame!) Forces over there on the other Hill! As our Valley Forge and other Continental Army typicals Behold the Welcome Sight so! And perhaps Seeing "U.S. Air Force", and "U.S. Navy", (And lets not forget "U.S. Marines") on their Side, -think to themselves, -"God Lord!, -What we are Destined to Become!" "IF Only we will Keep at It!"...

Well here in our Own American Day and Time, -*We've* Got to Keep that Samesuch Advice!

Again, -What would Good Old George Think!? What would he Think, Say, and Do!? It is *we* who are to now do that!, -here in his Stead! (Properly Adapted for Apaches and All, of course...). That Underlying "Spirit of it All"! That FIGHT in us / U.S.!...

Yes, -we must Maintain and Better ourselves, -as Civilly as All Possible!

But failng that, and should a True Need still exist for a Truly "Spirit of 76" Nation and Government, -then We the People Rightly *do* have the Inalienable Right to Take Back our Country and Government! As a Last but Definite Resort.

It is *not* only our Government's manifold enuff typical Failings, -but also our Many Enough Own! "We the People" have to Stay on Freedom's Ball, -as well!

I Share in some, but not all, -of your Pessimistic Side here. It is at least Very Understandable of you. I don't think that things are Neccessarily all that Bad! But I too Fear for my Country!, -and any Children as I at anytime may have.

It Reminds me of the Fight I once got into as a Teen. Peaceable, Kind Ole me. I was Standing Up for my Brother, with another Kid. He so Challenged me to a Fight! The Fighter Part of me replied, -"Yeah!, -I'll Fight you!". And so the Gang got the Time and Place all Scheduled and Arranged. I duly appeared at the appointed Place and Day. one Guy was Amazed that I even Shoed Up, -and to me said so. I replied in my own mind, -"But of Course!..." Just like a certain Condiment Ad says. "Why the Heck you Think I wouldn't!, -The Cause is Right and Just, -I've been Duly Challenged", etc. "Only Naturally and Of Course!, -I'll Show Up!

But then when the Actual Fight got underway, at the appointed Time, -that Great Peaceable Side of me!, -only also Naturally and Of Course came out! I just Stood Around like a Dolbo!, -not knowing What to Do! Getting Bounced Around like a Basketball! All over that particular Lawn. I think I didn't even get one Punch in!, -though I think I put up only a few Half Effective Blocking Moves. My Opponent got in, -to say the least, -Many. Guess who Won the Fight? It certainly *wasn't* me! Some assembled kids then Walked Away Laughing! Just couldn't Beleive!, -that I *Wouldn't* even Try!, -to Stand Up for Myself and Fight! "Showed Up, -Fine!", -they may have thought. -"But What was his Showing Up even *For*?!..." Considerably Acheing in at least 7 spots, -which was to last maybe a week, -I could only "Limp" back onto my Beloved Golden Bike, (which I had from Age 8 to 16), -and Ride one to two miles Homeward and Away. All by myself and Lonesome. I *Came* Nobly, But *Didnt* Follow Thru! And to No Surprise, -was Creamed as a Result! I Never Told my Brother of my Nobly Intended Sticking Up for him. And not just because I was Creamed in the Resulting Fight!

On another occassion, -two Good Ole Guys (one present at the aforementioned Fight), -got together with me to give me Fighting Lessons, -one Sunny Summerish Afternoon in the Field back of their House. I fared Much Better there! One remarking that I landed a Pretty Good Blocking Blow, at him! But while Real Enuff, -This was all in "Friendly Lessons". They may not have been Intellectually Smart and all like me. But these Good Ole Country Boys were Smart in other ways! Lessons which I have since Duly Long Taken On! Another Kid back in the Scout Troop was Urgeing me to be Tuff! "You've Got to be Tough!...", or something like that, -I Remember him saying! And in this particular Department of Life of his, -He was of course Quite Right! I Fondly Look Back and Remember these Good Lessons! Butof course *Not* so Fondly Remember that Creaming Fight! Save for its Vital Lesson!

Point of this all is!, -Applicability to our *National* Situation is!, -that we as a Nation, Culture, and People!, -just Can't and Shouldn't Stand Around like Dolbos! Like *I* once did! Before the various Opponents of our World! That is such a Large, -though Far from Complete Part, -of *Why* I am such an all round, National Security and Defense Hawk! (Not All and Only, -because it only Long and Always has come from Deep Inside of me anyway! The "Yeah!, -I'll Stand Up and Fight You!", -here too!). If we are so By and Large Much on the Downward side of the Curve, as you speak of, -then this is cause we largely Stand Around like Dolbos, -when we *Really Don't* have to!!! As well as various other "Loungeing Around on the National Couch", -like Potatos, -as we variously here at Home do! We *could* end up Getting Creamed as a Result! Again, -When we So Much Really DON'T Have to!!!

Again, -I do think I substantially Differ with you in the extent of the all round Downward Curve, -but I do Chagrinedly and Concernably think that it is Considerable! (Also, as you say, -You too Don't think that things are all Bad!, =-I here do Hasten to Acknowledge! But I still substantially Differ with you on your "Downward Side Remainder"!).

(NOTE to Anyone, -"Dolbo" and "Dolbos" are my own Apt, Made Up Words, here. Any samesuch Similarity to any Slang Word which may actually exist somewhere, -is Unknown and Unintentional of me! I once got into a Real Misunderstanding with a Gal, -over another such Aptly Made Up New Word of mine! I *Would't* want any samesuch, -to Unintentionally but Defitely Happen here!!! -So to speak along the lines of TV and Movie Disclaimers!,...).

As to your first paragraph, -I don't mean to Braggingly Toot my own Horn! But Put me there in Washington or the White House! And I seriously think I can do a Darned Good Job of Leading and Protecting this Country! NOT that I seriously want to do such! But hypothetically given the Position, -I think that I Materially Very Well Can!, Lead so! I've Got the "Spirit and Sense of it All"! As well as much other National Security and Defense / Nuts and Bolts of it all Sense, here.

Like an Old Man I used to Know said, -"If I were President! / You just Make me President, ...-I'll Straighten this Country Out!".

Talk of insurrection by its citizens to overthrow the federal US government may be constitutional but;

The consequnces would be I fear be similar to the Proclamation, by mad King George III at http://www.founding.com/library/lbody.cfm?id=97&parent=17.

A new national security presidential order would be almost identical.

It may read something like,



or how about this recent Presidential Order that seems to have slipped by the US news media this month. Some consider it to be an affront to the US constitution. Recent events this month are just as important as those from the eighteenth century.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html

Um, I don't want to rain on the parade here, but we aren't the only nation to send men to the moon.

We aren't event the first ones into space.

As for Vietnam POWs, ours is the only country I think you will find where our war heroes get spit on, insulted, and generally discounted by the very citizenry they served.

Who here would think the old USSR wasn't a sick society? Yet look at all they accomplished. Also, they were darned near the end of us all. Accomplishments and sacrifice do not a great nation make.

As for the Presidency, it isn't being in the White House that makes you powerful, it is what got you there that does. Any modern president will have to deal with congress, and congress has a way of really stifling a president's desire to effect change. What gave Bush the clout to influence congress to his will, his ability to capitalize on the emotive response of the public opinion during crisis, and his lobbying influence with big business. Pitiful souls such as we would likely be congressional puppets for our lack of solid corporate backing these days. Heck, look what it takes to run a campaign even.

Much as I would desire such ideals to come to fruition, the reality is that we must fall considerably deeper before we as a people will rise up to compel change. Even then, given the magnitude of our technological development, I don't know if we have the capability to overcome the last desperate gasp of tyranny without being cancelled out in whole. Such things take tremendous sacrifice, and our ability to annihilate each other may be too great. We're not talking about legions of unwilling solidiers anymore, we're talking about one man with his finger on a button, and an attitude of if he can't have it all, then no one can...

I don't think "affront" means what I think you think it means. For example:

I'll admit I only skimmed it but it seems like the idea is to make sure that the gov't doesn't drop the ball if TSHTF.

Forgive my confusion, but no other nation has landed on the moon. Not the Soviets/Russians or the Chinese.



Some of their accomplishments include millions of their own citizens killed in purges, frequent crop failures and famines. Their economy was so out of whack that they couldn't even manage any industry other than labor intensive heavy industry. Their military was impressive until the mid to late 1980's. Today it's a shell of its former self.

The true tragedy is how the leaders of the USSR raped and pillaged their country.

Hi BrianTexas

Actually benjammin is technically correct in his statement. The Soviet Union did have space project to send men to the moon just as the United States of America did. The Soviet Moon Rocket was actually more massive than the Apollo Assembly. It blew up on the Launchpad. The reason why the Soviet rocket was more massive was because of the 3 inch Stainless Steel walls of the lunar space vehicle, which was required to protect the cosmonauts from the deadly radiation of the Van Allen Radiation belt. The US Apollo space craft had a few fractions of an inch of aluminum and mylar to protect the US astronauts from the radiation. The failure of the Soviet moon mission was airbrushed from Soviet history. Apparently the US astronauts landed successfully on the moon and returned successfully!!

Well both the Presidential Directive, (that you provide a Link to), and any modern day Rebels wishing to Preserve our Free, Constitutional Govt, -are Both trying to Preserve that Freedom and Constitution. I as such have no problem with either. My only Qualm or Problem occurs, when either or both are acting Contrary to these. Of course even there, the Directive can be Cited and Implemented, -in the Constitution's own Co-Opted Name. Or what could perhaps be called a "Backwards sort of Advocacy".

There is certainly No Need yet for Constitutional Rebels to overthrow and Retake our Govt, be that Govt Constitutional or otherwise. There may Never come such a True Need to ever do so. Certainly lets Hope that No such
Need or Day ever arises. But our Freedom and Constitution however its done, -be that either a Maintenence of, -or a Replay of, -our Spirit of 76!

(I Better start Avoiding the Political!).

But we've Got, and Always had, -many Fail Safe Safeguards, -where it would certainly take more than one Person's finger on the Nuclear Button. (Unless you're talking about a Presidential Order or Directive here).

Also, -I don't know where you get the Idea that others besides just us have been to the Moon, -but we're the Only ones who yet have! And Thank God and our Sticktuitiveness, -that the Flag of Freedom was the First and Only one!, -to yet Fly there! I wouldn't mind a Union Jack, Tricolor, (Present Day) Rising Sun, or Maple Leaf, -also Flying there someday. But Never any ones of Tyranny or other all round Oppression! I recently heard something on Art Bell's and George Norrie's Coast to Coast, -about how we suppossedly first went in 1962, and are Mining there now!!! But *I Don't Beleive it!* I just Don't Beleive it! And Thats That!

Heck!, -the Red Chinese have only Recently begun doing MERCURY type Missions! And this some 40 years After our Fact! And how many of these have they sent up yet?, -maybe 2 or 3 ?!

Indeed they're now so Belatedly Shooting for the Moon! If Mao and all his Revolutions were so Great, -then Why Didn't they Race us then!? A la the Soviets, -who at least were in a Very Respectable Running! In *this* vein, -"Respectable" and "Chinese Space Program" *Can't* be said in the same Sentence! (Save this one). Our Renewed Space Resolve, -that of our Upcoming Orion and Aries Programs, -an Enhanced "Apollo II", (thats Roman Numeral Two, -not Apollo 11 !), -will again Beat the Pants Off of them there! (Notwithstanding the Fact that between Everything Else, -I don't know where *all* the Funding and Resources for such, are going to come from!).

Speaking of a More Massive Lunar Launch Vehicle, -that Schnitt Guy, (I forget his First Name and middle Initial), -Really I think *had* something of an Idea! With his "Big, Dumb, Launcher"! As Splendiferous, Complex, and All, -as the Apollo Saturn 5 was! But *therein* lies the Genius of his very Idea! To *Avoid* a lot of that Complexity and the Requisite Effort that goes into it! ,-BY just making the thing Bigger! You have Greater "Tolerances" and more "Room for Error" there! The CM, LM, and SM, of course can be placed as they were, -right atop such. With of course a different sort of Adaptor. We even perhaps could have gone for an Upgraded and Enhanced CM / LM / and SM, -somewhat as we're doing now with Orion and Aries.

Similarly, -this Recalls an Inspiration that I once had. Looking at a Train go by on the Railroad Tracks in the Valley, -at a Tanker Car, -I thought, -"Gosh!, -You *can* Pressurize that thing, -probably as it is right now, -and if you Launched that thing into Space, (with Air, -not its Liquid Rail Cargo),-It would probably "Hold the Pressure"! Just as it is! In ordinary "Earth Life"! With NO Comlex Rockwell, Grumman, Northrup, etc Pressurization "Design-in"!

*Therin*, -You could *then* provide all the Normal Complexities of a Manned Space Capsule or Station Module, -along with attached Entry and Docking Hatches, Thrusters, Antennae, etc. Of course unless you've Coated it with Re-Entry Material, -it could not Re-Enter.

This is along the same Spirit and Lines, -of Schnitt's "Big, Dumb, Booster"!