Or maybe I've just been not noticing for a while. Has anyone worked it picaridin before? I saw it for the first time last night in Wallyworld. I'm testing it before I get too attached; has anyone tried it? Good? Bad? Indifferent?

It's safe for synthetics- I sprayed some on scraps of nylon and poly webbing, SpiderWire, fleece, and bits of milk jug and soda bottle-type plastics, and put them in a ziplock bag which I left sitting on window sill in the sun all day. They didn't seem to degrade at all.

I put some on tonight and sat outside at twilight, begging the black flies to bite me, but I was downwind of the spot they camp out in, so I don't know if it was a fair evaluation. What I do know is that if I sit outside at that time, not moving about, I'm going to get bit a half dozen times or so in half an hour. I'm going to be trying it some more this weekend.

Before anyone mentions DEET, I've always disliked DEET for two major reasons. One, it attacks nylon and other synthetics, like what my pack, bivy sack, hammock and equipement vest are made out of. I'd rather not dissolve it, I want to be able to count on it and I can't afford to just replace it every year. Two, it makes me MORE attractive to black flies- I don't get it, but I get bit about three times as much by the little *beep*s when I put on DEET. My brother is the same way, so I'm guessing it a biochemistry thing.

I've been using Green Ban for a long time. It works, but it has to be reapplied every few hours, and I'd rather not have to worry about it that much. It is also an oil, which kinda counter acts sunscreen.

I hate DEET for that reason too. I've used Cutter repellent with picaridin a few times and it seems to work okay. Obviously the benefit is that it doesn't eat up your gear. I was hiking a few months ago and for some reason the black flies and gnats were utterly terrible so I sprayed on the picaridin but it hardly seemed to do anything. Maybe the Cutter brand doesn't have a very high concentration or something but I was a little disappointed.

Hi Ironraven,

If you find that a Citronella based insect repellent does not last long enough before repeated spraying/application then you could move on to tea tree oil based repellents such as found here

http://www.thursdayplantation.com/Product%20Sites/Walkabout50_125ml.htm

the tea tree oil based formula also has other beneficial medicinal effects being useful for skin infections (the tea tree oil soap would be useful to use also in the field). It also acts as an anti fungal and germicidal treatment as well and relieves the irritation of insect bites. I don't know if it is freely available in the US though. I don't know whether it has been given FDA approval for its use as an insect repellent, but it does appear it has FDA approval as an antiseptic.

The next step up in the insect chemical warfare would then be the picaridin preparations. I afraid I don't know if this synthetic chemical gives brain damage like the high concentration DEET preparations though.

You may also find the Nordic Summer repellent useful also available at

http://www.raymears.com/shop_item_desc.cfm?id=284&itemType=Skin%20Care

The Cutter is what I'm working with, actually. I guess I'll have to keep offereing myself to the little buggers.

Backpacker reviewed bug juice in a recent issue might look on their website.

Lee

Picaradin is not as effective as DEET otherwise all the manufacturers would stop making DEET now that they almost all make a Picaradin product.

Think of it this way;

For mosquitos;

Natural repellents like citronella work for a few hours.

Picaradin a little longer.

Deet is the most effective under the highest concentration of bugs for the longest period of time.

I have found that natural (citronella) works a bit better than Deet on those nasty NE black flies; go figure.

Bentirran;
Please post supporting data for your statement that Deet equals brain damage. The EPA allows it, Dr.'s still recommend it and it is over 60 years old. If it did cause significantly brain damage it would not be on the shelves. It is probably as bad as hair spray, spray on deodorant etc. I would not swim in it but I do not hesitate to use it when it gets real bad.

Information can be found here at

http://dukemednews.duke.edu/news/healthtip.php?id=5656

Mohamed Abou-Donia, PhD; Professor of Pharmacology and Cancer Biology, Professor of Neurobiology at Duke University

If 40 mg/kg of body weight is an "average human dose" then I'd need to apply over SEVEN POUNDS of deet to my body to reach that dose. No wonder my gear gets so heavy when I re-pack it for summer use.

Perhaps it should say "Study finds that drowning rats in Deet destroys brain cells - DUH!"

Welcome to the wonderful world of "Agenda Supporting Science" curtisy of "Heroes Of Leninistic Environmental Science" (usually refered to by the acronym by real scientists).

-Blast

Sorry I don't understand why you would need 7lbs of Deet applied in one application.

40mg/kg of body weight is an "average human dose"

Assuming average weight is 75 Kg

40mg x 75 = 3 grams = 0.105821 oz

Sorry, you're right, I dropped a few decimal place somewhere!

I guess I've just become accustomed to the typical toxicology study where they force feed rats huge unrealistic doses and then sound the alarm when they get sick.