What methods other than tinder, lighter and matches has anyone used to start a fire in adverse conditions like a <br>high wind? How about using wet wood? I can use a<br>flamethrower or a thermite grenade, too. I am interested in<br>practical solutions that you arrived at on the spot-if you did.<br>How did you sustain the fire?<br>Has anyone thought about the efficacy of ading a pair of<br>pruning shears to your kit to facilitate the accumulation<br>of dead wood ? <br><br>

There are numerous ways to start fires without matches. I try to carry enough dry tinder to catch a spark and start small twigs. Once the twigs are going, I can dry out enough wood to get a blaze going.<br><br>I collect what I was taught was called "sqaw wood". Dead branches still on trees. Since they are still on the tree, they are not rotted and the wind drys them even when it is raining. Stuff up to about the size of your wrist can be easily broken off and used immedately. Once you get your twigs and pencil sized wood burning, you can add wrist sized overtop even it if is wet. The fire will dry out the larger wood which will then burn. It will tend to be a smoky fire with lots of sizzling and popping. Once you have a fire going, stack your wet firewood around the ring of fire. The heat will dry out the wet wood so it will be ready to throw on.<br><br>

A useful product to use in wind or rain are the magnesium bars with strikers. Magnesuim burns at 5000+ degrees and cannot be put with water. Well, technically it can be extinguished by water but fire departments do not feel they have enough water to extinguish magnesium with multiple fire hydrants. They use a special purpose fire extinguisher, Class D. But I digress....<br><br>You can get the magnesium bars at the Mart stores for about $5 in the camping section. A dull gray bar about 3 inchs long x 1 inch wide x 1/4 inch. Get a hack saw blade and break it off the same length as the bar. Most bars come with a chain attached. You can connect the hack saw blade via the chain so you don't lose it.<br><br>Take the saw blade and scrape the bar with the teeth side of the saw blade. Make a pile of magnesium shavings. The package directs to make a pile about the size of a quarter. Make the pile of shavings on top of your tinder. Now scrape the artifical flint on the side of the magnesium with the saw blade. It will throw white hot sparks. Aim the sparks at the pile of shavngs. They will catch fire and burn extremely hot. <br><br>The package recommends using your knife to make the shavings. Yes, thats right. Cut and scrape your nice sharp knife against metal. Then it recommends you scrape your (now dulled) knife agaist the metal artificial flint. That will work. New hack saw blades are $1. They are thin, lightweight and designed to cut metal. If you are going to carry around this hunk of magneisum, adding a piece of hack saw blade 3 inchs long is not an inconvience, it is a necessity to make the magnesium a vivable firestarter.<br><br>I put the shavings on a leaf or piece of bark so that I can transfer the pile of burning metal easily. Put your other tinder on the leaf/bark tray and then make your pile of shavings on top of the tinder. That way you can pick up the whole mess to blow gently and then stuff inside your tepee or log cabin of twigs.<br><br>For windy conditions, build a wind break around you fire area to limit the problems. Remember, building a fire is mostly about prepartion. Things like clearing your site from fuel which could start forest fires, collecting a large pile of fuel to burn in all the sizes you will need before you even start, breaking and correctly sizing your twigs, sticks, tinder, etc. before you start, placing it all within arms reach. Making the spark or striking the match is the last part of making a fire. <br><br><br>

I once started a fire on the Oregon Coast with a handdrill.This was about as tough as it gets; one broken hand,sea spray and the ever present rain. I had been tought this ancient method as a little boy by an Apache cowboy;AND MADE TO PRACTICE ! Driftwood is obviously waterlogged, but even on the beach some becomes dry and seasoned in the right 'nooks and crannies'. When you practice any survival skill,total focus is essential. I had no choice but to succeed. Pruning shears,axes etc. are uneccessary with dried wood. Just break smaller pieces for kindling and then build it up to burn the larger billets. When your tired and cold ,big tools make big cuts, usuallyin your thigh.<br><br>

>>>The package recommends using your knife to make the shavings. Yes, thats right. Cut and scrape your nice sharp knife against metal. Then it recommends you scrape your (now dulled) knife agaist the metal artificial flint. That will work. <<<<br><br>I use my multi tool with the magnesium bar.<br><br>I first use the file to generate the filings, which I place on dryer lint. Then I use a square edge of the phillips screw driver tool to create the sparks. <br><br>I taught my kids to do this and they went crazy when they created a shower of sparks and actually started a fire without matches.<br><br>BTW, can these bars be cut without igniting? I have a leather holder for my tool that's too tall. I use a little block of wood in the bottom as a spacer. A chunk of the magnesium bar would work as well as server as an emergency fire starter. Any thoughts?<br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL

Cut away. Doug dispells this concern in his review of magnesium. Some folks apply a thin wash of fingernail polish to seal the bar from moisture.<br><br>

Saw a suggestion on another web site to cut the bar in half lengthwise. Carve a notch along the long side and superglue replacement lighter flints into the notch. Now you have two bars for the cost of one that take up only half the space.<br><br>It would seem easiser to cut in half the other direction but that may leave you with a flint that is too short to generate sparks easily. It also depends on the size of the space where you plan on storing the bar.<br><br>

In addition to the 'standard' NATO lifeboat matches and magnesium flint, I also keep a pad of 0000 fine steel wool and a 9 V dry cell in my primary survival kit. Pull off a large wisp of steel wool from the pad, roll it into a slightly compressed wad, and touch it to the terminals of the dry cell - instant glowing iron filaments. Works well in the wind and/or rain.<br><br><br>

1. Do you dilute the fingernail polish or apply it straight?<br><br>2. How susceptable to moisture are the bars?<br><br>Thanks.<br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL

I'd need to cut it crossways so it sits in the bottom of the sheath and pushes the multi-tool up higher. I'll try taping part of one to see if the remaining length is sufficient for sparking. I'd still have a full size one in my fanny pack. <br><br>The idea was to put something of use in the bottom of the sheath instead of a small block of wood. Any other suggestions? I don't have it with me but the space is about 1" wide x 1/2" deep x 3/4" high. And it sits in the bottom so it will not be easy to get out. I would likely have to remove my belt and ti[ the sheath over to knock it out. A string to pull out would not work as the sheathing of the tool during normal use would push it down.<br><br>Willie Vannerson<br>McHenry, IL

I haven't done this personally, But my friends just put enough on to seal the bar. magnesium exposed to water will get a oxidized powdery surface eventualy.Nothing major,unless your in a wet environment like the northwest.<br><br>

First of I live in an area where the biggest wood is the half inch stalk of a dead tumble weed. However, I have kepr fairly warm with a tumble weed fire. They are small enough to cut and use for kindling and maybe tinder. For tinder I can usually crumble up some dry grass.<br><br>As far as the magnesium tool I can usually start a fire with just the flint. <br><br>The major problem I have seen is the flattening out of the flint. It only takes a few strikes to flatten out the flint flush with the magnesium. It still works, but it is something to keep in mind.

I am fond of traditonal flint and steel. A few months ago when I started looking into survival skills, I decided that learning fire first made sense. I ordered a couple strikers and some flint from www.trackofthewolf.com and set about making it work. I have since found that the small crystalline silica type rocks that you find in creeks will also spark when broken to a sharp edge, so that saves me money on buying real flint.
I have found that flint and steel with charcloth works well in wind. Actually, the wind sort of helps since you have to blow on it anyway.
Charcloth will work even better with a ferrochromium rod because it generates alot more sparks than flint and steel, but there are better things to use with a ferrochromium rod.
Still though, making charcloth and charred wood are good skills IMO. You may need them if you run out of cotton balls or whatever tinder you have. I would gladly sacrifice an inch of the bottom of my T-shirt if it meant getting me 20 more fires.
Charcloth is vulnerable to moisture though, so you have to keep it sealed in something more than less airtight.
I keep a striker and a couple peices of flint in a 4" round metal can with a tiny hole punched in the lid. I also keep some jute twine in there, and a brass snuffbox to keep my charcloth in. With those things, I always have dry tinder (twine) and a way to ignite it. I use the larger tin with the hole to cook the charcloth over my fire. You just put some cotton cloth pieces in the can, put the lid on, and cook it until it stops smoking. Let it cool, and check it. It should be evenly black with no brown and it should still have good strength. I have used T-shirt, denim, terrycloth, and cotton flannel to make charcloth and all have worked well. I have also used punk wood and moss to make char, and although they are harder to ignite they will light a fire.
I will admit that the stuff is a bit large to carry, that it is primitive, and that there are better ways. But I take comfort in knowing that I can make a fire from a chunk of steel and a piece of rock if I have to.

Also, waxpaper works very well with a magnesium firestarter. I take a small square of it ane make sort of a ball on one end, the scrape some shavings onto the still flattened other side. When you ignite the shavings, they light the ball of waxpaper, which burns for about 15 or so seconds once you get good with it. Not as good as cottonballs, or even charcloth and good tinder, but way better than trying to use a leaf and you can fold a 2x2 foot piece of waxpaper up pretty small.

I know I should just try it but I'll ask the question anyway. Does it necessarily take a carbon steel knife or a stainless steel will do? Same for hacksaw blades, do bi-metal blades will make enough sparks?
Thanks

When you're using a knife and a ferrocerium rod, the sparks come from the rod, which is softer. The energy from cutting a chip off the rod ignites the chip. You need a sharp tool to actually do the cutting. A hacksaw blade is great because it has multiple cutting surfaces, so you get multiple sources of sparks. And the tips of the hacksaw teeth are hardened.

The same thing happens in reverse with a flint and steel- the flint is harder, so it cuts chips off of the steel. The softer the steel, the easier this is to do.

Yep, but it has been my experience that the steel has to be just right. I have tried the back side of my case hunting knife (stainless blade) and a piece of flint will not generate sparks on it. The steel has to be hard because the harder the steel, the smaller and hotter the sparks. But I also have tried sparking on files, and they don't spark well either. So apparently it can't be too hard or too soft.
I have started a fire by striking the small sharpened back edge on my Ontario pilot survival knife with flint, but the Glock field knife I have won't spark as well.
A stainless blade does work just fine on a ferrochromium rod though.

I have had great success sparking ferrocerium rods with almost anything sharp like a knife or rough like a file. I have heard that even a sharp piece of glass works well although I have not tried it. With the natural flint, quartz-type rocks that are plentiful where I live I can get a spark with hard stainless steel but it is a very tiny spark.... nothing compared to a ferrocerium rod. I don't know about other steel with natural flint (all my knives are stainless and I never carry a dedicated striker) but I hear that CS works well.

Though it's been some time (er, decades), I've forged and tempered several fire steels, and it is quite tricky. My best efforts were ok, but they weren't as good as some antiques I have, and some new ones I've bought. A really good steel is a prize, as it takes much less effort to strike a light than with a mediocre one. Stainless does not work for real firesteels.

Anything hard and sharp works with ferrocerium rods- broken glass works just fine (wrap it so you don't cut yourself).

Now I understand, thank you. I was confused with what Chris told me about Mora Swedish knives:

"[...] Still, they are one of the few carbon steel knives with sufficient Rockwell to produce sparks with natural stones; a minor, but relevant skill and firemaking option. If you get one, lightly file the spine. As new, flints tend to skip along the slick surface."

"[...] The carbon Moras' high R enables natural flint sparking. The flint ignites the carbon molecules from the blade material. Anything softer than 58-60 and the flint merely gouges the material. Moras have this high R in the blade, and a relatively soft tang. You will eventually bend one, or even get one with a few degrees 'prebent.' They bend back easily."

If you get one of those, be sure and get the Doan Machinery one... Here is a good review and explanition of why you want a good one if you get one.
I got mine from Camping Survival