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#94042 - 05/08/07 05:23 PM Surviving riots?
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
I may be spending some time in Paris due to work. While there I won't have a guide and will probably have to ride their trains/subways a lot. In light of current events, any tips on what to do if a riot breaks out around me? On the plus side, I'll probably be wearing steel-toed boots and Nomex clothing (required for job).

-Blast, somewhat paranoid

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#94044 - 05/08/07 05:42 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
samhain Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 598
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Blast,

Be mindful of the events and "emotional temperature" of what's going on around you.

If things start heating up, get the heck outta the way as fast as possible.

Yeah, they may be speaking french but an angry face and a clenched fist is universal.

Riots from what I've seen on TV, etc don't spontaneously spring up, there is an escalation of tensions and behavior.

From the riots I've seen on TV and the internet, there's too many actual or potential adversaries on a 360 degree front to effectively defend against, not to mention being collateral damage from indiscriminately launched rocks, beer bottles, poodles, teargas canisters, rubber bullets, etc.

I think it's best to bug out or find something as close to a fox (or gopher) hole to hide in until it is safe to bug out (or continue working).

Be careful, but have fun.







_________________________
peace,
samhain autumnwood

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#94047 - 05/08/07 06:00 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
Try to avoid the pre-dominently muslim neighborhoods, that's where (as I understand it) the riots begin.

Funny you should make this posting;

6 muslims (one of them an American citizen) have been arrested for planning an attack on Ft. Dix, NJ and;

8 muslims have just been arrested for (at least attempting) procuring and disseminating weapons and explosives throughout the country to other muslims for the purpose of launching jihad in American streets.

It seems that they are conducting a great deal of training by playing paintball games.

As far as France goes, Nostradamus predicted a time of rioting would hit France but that in the end, France would survive.

Bon chance et au revoir, Monseur Blast!
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#94049 - 05/08/07 06:11 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
DesertFox Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/04/07
Posts: 339
Loc: New York, NY
Stay out of crowds, or at least on the edge of the crowd. Always be aware of where your escape routes are, and have multiple escape routs. Don't get boxed in. Dress low key.

And if worst comes to worst, your from Texas, so . . .

REMEMBER THE ALAMO.


Safe travels.

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#94052 - 05/08/07 06:17 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
billym Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
Keep up on the current events so you are aware of the differnt "flash points". Watch the news or check the internet.

Stay clear of any protests or gatherings.

Leave the city and enjoy the countyside on weekends.

Don't look too American and avoid attention.

Stay away from crowded tourist spots.

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#94054 - 05/08/07 06:21 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: DesertFox]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
Actually, my experience has been that if you are asked if you're an American, the best answer is "NO, I'm a Canadian" (nobody dislikes Canadians), from Sault Ste. Marie, Ont. You work at a steel mill there (Soo Steel) and you're vacationing in France, tracking down your ancestral heritage.

If they think you're an American, then they have found the target that they are looking for. Also, Never wear white tennis shoes or sneakers, it marks you as an American.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#94060 - 05/08/07 06:54 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
gatormba Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 136
Loc: Alabama
I have traveled to Paris on several occassions and have never had a problem. Despite the general perception that the French people are rude I have found them to be very nice and helpful on many occassions both in and outside of Paris. I actually feel safer walking around Paris at night than I do walking around most cities in the US. I have frequently walked around Paris alone at 2AM with little apprehension compared to doing the same in LA, NYC, San Fran, Miami, etc. The police in Paris have always been very friendly towards me, actually more so after they knew I was an American. However, I still would not advertise that you are American.

I don't know if you have ever been to Paris before but if not the Metro system (subway) is very good in terms of alternate routes. You can literally get anywhere in the city via several different routes using the Metro so you can use it to avoid areas where there may be problems.

Likewise I would get a good street map of Paris and orient yourself with the monuments and the river. Between the monuments and the river it is very easy to stay oriented when walking the streets and navigate the city even in areas you may not be familiar with.

IMO The central city itself is actually much safer than the outskirts where the muslim housing projects are so if you have to travel outside of the city be extremely careful. The riots a few years ago when they were burning the busses and cars were mainly in the outskirts of Paris.

As I recall the last time I looked up the statutes, carrying just about any type of weapon (including knives) in Paris is a big no-no however you may want to consider improvised weapons such as a nicely sharpened pencil for a stabbing weapon or a good strong flashlight for an impact weapon both would seem to be easily explainable to the local police if need be.
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"It's a legal system, not a justice system!"

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#94061 - 05/08/07 07:18 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Riots!! , You're going to Paris which has the second highest 'Chicka chicka boom boom awoooo awooo hubba hubba shiver' density on the planet, just after Prague. Riots will be last thing on your mind! smile


Edited by bentirran (05/08/07 07:19 PM)

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#94077 - 05/08/07 10:51 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: ]
frenchy Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 1320
Loc: France
Riots !?!? Nooooo..... just a few moody guys, trying to liven up their districts, by organising street games.
As for burning cars, temperatures dropped recently ....
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Alain

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#94079 - 05/08/07 10:57 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I can't help you with info about Paris, but as far as riots in general go, there are two rules of thumb: Stay inside, or if outside get inside and stay there. The ability to beat feet rapidly could come in handy, those steel toes might just slow you down...
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OBG

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#94090 - 05/08/07 11:42 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
And if worst comes to worst, your from Texas, so . . .
REMEMBER THE ALAMO.


That's usually my "Plan C"

Quote:
The ability to beat feet rapidly could come in handy, those steel toes might just slow you down...

Unfortunately, the steel toes are required for the sites I'll be visiting.

The situation is my boss wants me to make a "world tour" to visit with our petroleum field engineers. I'd go to our regional labs and also to the oil/gas fields themselves to see what new chemical technologhy is most wanted and then come back here and invent it.

The tour includes Scotland, Norway, France, Germany, Russia, China, the Philipines, the UAE, and assorted places in Africa. eek My boss knows I'm not thrilled with this idea and put an emphasis on Paris as a positive aspect of the trip. Apparently he doesn't know I watch the news. Most of the places sound either benign or I'll have armed guards with me. Paris is the wildcard...

It's quite possible that this tour won't happen, but if it did I'd only have about a week's warning. mad I figured I better start preparing now.

-Blast
_________________________
Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
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#94096 - 05/08/07 11:58 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
I think Paris is your least threatening part of the trip, personally.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#94097 - 05/09/07 12:03 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Enjoy the world tour. The news has a low % chance of happening to you, but stay in yellow and avoid crowds as much as practical.

Enjoy the food in Paris, never a bad place for dinner. Those other places may have food/nutrition but there's nothing like French cuisine.
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Better is the Enemy of Good Enough.
Okay, what’s your point??

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#94098 - 05/09/07 12:07 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: ]
samhain Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/30/05
Posts: 598
Loc: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Quote:
second highest 'Chicka chicka boom boom awoooo awooo hubba hubba shiver' density on the planet, just after Prague.


, and I hear they got good looking women too!!!! laugh


_________________________
peace,
samhain autumnwood

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#94106 - 05/09/07 01:31 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
ame Offline
Member

Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 162
Loc: Korea
Jeez! Who needs real terrorists when Fox, CNN, MSNBC et al can keep the population in a perpetual state of fear?

The biggest thing you need to worry about is the entrance doors (turnstiles) onto the Metro. They are pneumatic and they snap shut quite quickly once you've gone through, so keep your luggage and fingers close to you.

A

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#94116 - 05/09/07 02:34 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: ame]
stealthedc Offline


Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Durham NC
I do not want to get into a debate about the world view of the US or patriotism or anything like that, but this tactic has been used by many people I know for various reasons or another, the most recent being a friend of mine who went to Colombia the same time Bush did his Latin America tour:

If asked, or if the situation arises, CLAIM TO BE CANADIAN.

Again, no offense to any Canadians nor my fellow Americans, just going on what has worked for several friends for various reasons.
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EDC, Mini PSK, PSK, Fishing PSK, Diaper Bag Kit, Portable Office, Vehicle Kit (X2), 72 Hour Kit, 7 Day Kit, SIP Kit and a Kit-Kat. Oh yeah, and a FAK (X10). Now where did I put the Tums?

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#94118 - 05/09/07 02:44 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I am currently wearing my second pair of these. If you are not restricted to real "boots," you might consider them. They look a lot better than the engineer boots I used to wear when I worked in the fields, and, although heavy, I can scoot along better in them than real boots. I flew in them a year or so ago, and the TSA didn't bat an eye at them either...
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OBG

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#94125 - 05/09/07 03:25 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
I am currently wearing my second pair of these.


Hey, those look pretty nice. I'll run ( grin) them past our safety guy and see what he thinks.

-Blast
_________________________
Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#94128 - 05/09/07 03:53 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Got mine in a Hi Tech factory outlet, second pair half price, something like $75 for both pair! I wouldn't want to wear them working a well pulling crew, but it sounds like you are a "shirt," so they should do just fine. Just remember to scuff the soles in the dirt to remove the oil before going onto carpet...
_________________________
OBG

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#94129 - 05/09/07 03:53 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
Themalemutekid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 351
Loc: New Jersey
Hey OBG i just got a pair of boots that look alot like those from la police gear on closeout for forty bucks same brand. They are really heavy, but way better than standard steel toe boots.

Link to boots
_________________________
....he felt the prompting of his heritage, the desire to possess, the wild danger-love, the thrill of battle, the power to conquer or to die. Jack London

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#94130 - 05/09/07 04:02 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Themalemutekid]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Those are a tad higher than mine, but nothing wrong with that...
_________________________
OBG

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#94134 - 05/09/07 04:33 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: stealthedc]
Themalemutekid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 351
Loc: New Jersey
No offense, but why the "heck" would I wanna go and do a pansy thing like say that I'm a friggin' Canadian for? I'm not saying that we as visitors to other countries should act out the whole "ugly american" bit...please no one take this as a personal attack. I just think that we should be proud of where we are from.Many young men and women fought and died to make the U.S. what it is today, a country that is quick to give a helping hand to any other nation in a time of need be it bywriting a big check, sending over food and meds or sending over troops. Yes we are a rich nation, and that fuels the hatred of those that have less than us. We Americans did a lot for France and others in the past & will do the same in the future. The rich & fulfilling lives that we lead today are because of where we live...Don't forsake your heritage.
_________________________
....he felt the prompting of his heritage, the desire to possess, the wild danger-love, the thrill of battle, the power to conquer or to die. Jack London

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#94136 - 05/09/07 04:44 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Themalemutekid]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
Yo !! No offense, but to admit to being an American is akin to committing suicide. The local LE aren't going to go out of their way to protect you, nor are the locals. As an American, you are considered fair game. Those other than Americans, care not one wit what we've done for theirs or anybody else's people!!

Try to reason with them and if you're lucky, they'll reply with: "Don't confuse the issue with facts"!

It was that way, in my experiences, throughout the Med area, including Eastern Europe and North Africa. I also came across that attitude in some of the Carribean Sea.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#94138 - 05/09/07 05:06 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: wildman800]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Telling people you're Canadian sounds like a good idea. Maybe they weren't telling all those French-cowards jokes like the Americans...

But if you're "Canadian", make sure you know how to pronounce some of the names correctly. Sault Ste. Marie is "Sue St. Marie"; Quebec is "Ke-bec" or "Kay-bec" -- there is no W sound in it at all.

If you go to the Philippines, be careful. Their elections are taking place next week, and those people and their bodyguards are SHOOTING at each other! No kidding! Virtually everyone there is on the take, and they will take American money. Keep five and/or ten dollar bills folded where you can get to them very fast and unobtrusively, like under your driver's license or other ID. Understand that you are fantastically rich compared to the people there. Be aware.

Sue

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#94147 - 05/09/07 01:26 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: NightHiker]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I wouldn't worry too much about telling people who you are or where you're from. Likely you won't be hanging with the sort of crowd who is going to care, and those that might aren't likely to confront you in that sort of context, unless you are out looking for trouble, that is.

One thing I would strongly recommend to anyone out in public anywhere these days: If you see someone in public having some sort of an attack, or maybe fainting or otherwise having difficulty, go in the opposite direction, preferably quickly. Something I am seeing more of these days are suicide bombers with explosives strapped to themselves acting like they are ailing from something. As the crowd gathers around to offer aid/see what is happening, the bomber detonates his load and takes a whole bunch of people out. I saw it in Iraq, and I am aware of such events happening elsewhere with increasing frequency. It is a nasty ploy playing on both our good nature and our curiosity. There are variations on this theme, such as the alley victim apprently being attacked, etc only to blindside you as you attempt to confront the assailant they are in cahoots with. Much as you might want to help out people in apparent distress, or gawk at the event, it is best to evade the scene, try and contact the authorities, and let them deal with it while you go on about your business.

_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#94150 - 05/09/07 01:54 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: wildman800]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Exactly why we chose to stay in the good ole U.S of A. Why spend our money in other countries, where they love our money but hate us. We will spend ours here, where we are loved, or at least tolerated (when they find out we are from CA). Of course traveling there on orders from the boss is a different deal entirely...
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OBG

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#94158 - 05/09/07 02:30 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Just a few thoughts regarding Paris. Not to sound paranoid by any means but in my experience Paris is one of the more dangerous European cities these days. There is quite a lot of street crime and violence, mostly gang related. Some neighborhoods are quite bad, especially around the highway ring and in the suburbs. Hard to compare to some of the ghettos in the US but you could still easily end up in trouble just passing by the wrong part of town. Some metro stations are also pretty bad at night. I've had more than one unpleasant experience at the Gare du Nord during my 10-day stay in Paris last year. Simply being a white person and walking in the street could attract hostility. At some point I was assaulted verbally, and almost physically, in broad daylight walking down a beautiful avenue not far from Bastille (another location where caution is advised because it's a place where a lot of political demonstrations/riots start).

I hope this doesn't discourage you from your visit as Paris is a beautiful city and the people are for the most part quite nice. Just keep in mind that the threat of theft or assault is real and it's a good idea to be aware of your surroundings. Though if you take some common sense precautions and try to blend in with the crowd as much as possible there is little to worry about.

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#94160 - 05/09/07 03:31 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: frenchy]
Meline Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 48
Like everone else has said,

1. (and most important) Don't look America or anything else that makes you stand out. The more you look the average French Joe the safer you will be.

2. If things get dicey, get inside!! Get in a store or resturant, and avoid bars. Most crowds will not fallow in doors as the confinded space breaks up the mob mentallity.

3. Always watch you surroundings, with the current riots in responce to France's new conservative Gov keep a specially sharp look out for groups of young males 15-30 as that is the most likely demographic to cause a confrontation.

4. If you find yourself in a riot, don't fight against the crowd it will make you stand out, go with the flow of the crowd and work to the edges to escape.


Good luck and try enjoy Paris

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#94182 - 05/09/07 07:18 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
frenchy Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 1320
Loc: France
Well, let's keep things in perspective ..

IMHO, you should not be more afraid of walking in Paris than you should walking in New York, LA or Washington.. (I guess... never went to Washington...).
I'm sure you won't wander at night in some areas, in those towns, without some wariness.

Paris is not (yet ?) as dangerous as Bahgdad (check with Benjamin).
We have yet to bomb Aussie tourists, as in the Philippines (IIRC).
Nor have we got Tchetchenes taking hostages in the Opéra, as in Moscou...

So keep cool.... You won't be roaming the poorer suburbs in the middle of the night, anyway. That could be another story.

Just stay aware of your surroundings and keep your wallet well covered : pickpokets are a really threat, in the Metro (especially when cars are crowded during rush hours) or on the Champs Elysées... (tourists from any country are a god send gift for some people, like everywhere..)

As for civil unrest, just take care not to be caught in between the demonstrators and the police forces... Then I could not predict which ones are the most dangerous in those instances ....

As for passing for a Canadian, it would be OK only if you could speak french, with french-canadian accent..
If not, just keep being an American : not all french people have an anti-american bias. If you keep a normal, sensible human being
profile, you will be surprised, but some of us do really like american people !!
OTOH .... well, now, ...a texas' guy... that could be a problem though...... ;o)) .... just say you are from "Californie" ...

LOL....

_________________________
Alain

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#94191 - 05/09/07 07:33 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: frenchy]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Yes, perspective is right. I wouldn't believe all of Paris is nothing more than a den of theives, cutthroats and assorted villains, anymore than New York, LA, or Washington might be. I roam the streets in Manhattan daily, without feeling wholly threatened or in great danger of suddenly being attacked. The reason is I don't go places and do things that don't make sense. You would never find me in the west end of Brooklyn or certain parts of Queens after nightfall, unless I am being escorted by a significant security contingent. Likewise, I would not walk down the backstreets in Compton alone any time of the day or night. You ought to be able to recognize and avoid places that you don't belong in. Heck, even in the suburbs of Brisbane in Australia there's certain areas and times where the chance someone like me could be confronted by a group of well armed 14 year olds is quite likely, and would end not well. Fortunately I knew enough to avoid those situations just by virtue of not being a dumba$$ about it. Paris should be no different. People who get pinched are most often folks who fail to stay aware of their surroundings and act like an easy mark. If you are travelling and you haven't yet developed those skills, then you should really limit the amount of time you spend outside by yourself, and find someone you can trust that will help you learn how to function in public better. Somehow Blast, I reckon you are not so naive as that.

Take care bub
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#94195 - 05/09/07 07:43 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: frenchy]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
The people from Quebec province speak French, most other Canadians do not,,,Most other Candians, like the Americans on the south side of the border, do end EVERY sentence with: "AY", pronounced "A".

This means that you must get into the habit of speaking like you're from the Great White North, AY. Which is not too difficult to do, AY.

I still recommend that you claim to be from Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, you work at the Soo Steel Plant, right on the St. Mary's River just downstream from the Soo Locks. Yes there is a park in Sault Ste. Marie, that has a black bear and a mountain lion right next to the old RR switch engine and there's the only Mall within 70 miles (at Cheboygan, Mi). You go to the American side every Friday evening after getting paid to do your grocery shopping because it is so much cheaper. The land is flat with only a few small hills here and there.

The only time I used these facts were in the event that someone ASKED if I were an American, otherwise I keep my voice @ low volume and mind my own business.
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#94200 - 05/09/07 07:49 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: ]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
Good advice:
First order of biz, learn "Please", "Thank-you" and, if by the
sheer grace you are able to do something that deserves a
reply of "You are welcome", know it in the local tongue.


Please= S'il vous plait= seal voo play
Thank you= Mercee= mare-see
Thank you very much= mercee beau coup= mare see bo coo
You are welcome= avec plasir= avec pla sear
_________________________
QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#94204 - 05/09/07 08:00 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: benjammin]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
People who get pinched are most often folks who fail to stay aware of their surroundings and act like an easy mark.


My main concern is I'd be travelling back and forth on the subway (Metro?) out Nanterre (I think). When you are on a subway you have limited options.

A lot of this is just a combination of paranoia combined with the oppertunity to pick other people's brains in "what if" scenerios. I feel the threat level is only moderate, but worth thinking/talking about. I mentioned earlier that in Russia, the UAE, Africa, South America and the Philipines I'll have bodyguards. I speak enough German to get by in Germany. France is the only place with much civil unrest that I'll be on my own.

Thanks for everyone's replies!

-Blast


Edited by Blast (05/09/07 08:54 PM)
Edit Reason: forgot about Africa
_________________________
Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#94207 - 05/09/07 08:06 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: wildman800]
Themalemutekid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 351
Loc: New Jersey
Is being asked, "Are you an American?" a threat? I don't think it is. Now if some local toughs say " The first American we see here we're gonna beat, spit upon and rob!", then you should think about keeping a low profile & leaving the area asap.If some armed jihadist go into where you're having dinner and ask all Americans to stand up...hell no i'm not gonna get up, but if someone asks if i'm American i'll just say yes.
_________________________
....he felt the prompting of his heritage, the desire to possess, the wild danger-love, the thrill of battle, the power to conquer or to die. Jack London

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#94213 - 05/09/07 08:35 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: benjammin]
frenchy Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 1320
Loc: France
if in doubt :
- ask your boss to make reservations for a suite at Hotel de Crillon, place de la Concorde (*) ; it's right beside the Palais de l'Elys?ee, where the french president resides. There are enough police forces in the area, for it to be secure !!!
- use a limousine service to go to your work site ;
grin grin

(*) place de la Concorde : that's the place where the fans of the new president held their fiesta, on sunday's evening
Do not confuse with place de la Bastille, where most demonstration against the new president seem to start. For the time being, avoid that place in the evenings.
_________________________
Alain

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#94215 - 05/09/07 08:36 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
frenchy Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 1320
Loc: France
see PM
_________________________
Alain

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#94220 - 05/09/07 09:31 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: NightHiker]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Quote:
Global Incidents Map
I like to think of it as my daily dose of depression.

Oh and in case you're headed to Nigeria, a Brit was just snatched off an oil rig.
I don't recall seeing you list that as a place where you were going to have a security escourt


Oh goodie! More fuel for my paranioa! eek grin

Angola is on the list with Nigeria as a second African location. And yes, that would be one of the places with armed escorts. However, my company will also give me a "blood chit", a document stating exactly how much ransom they'll pay for me and directions on how to collect it. eek I guess it's their method of being prepared...

-Blast
_________________________
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*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#94222 - 05/09/07 09:37 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
gatormba Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 136
Loc: Alabama
Originally Posted By: Blast
Quote:
Global Incidents Map
I like to think of it as my daily dose of depression.

Oh and in case you're headed to Nigeria, a Brit was just snatched off an oil rig.
I don't recall seeing you list that as a place where you were going to have a security escourt


Oh goodie! More fuel for my paranioa! eek grin

Angola is on the list with Nigeria as a second African location. And yes, that would be one of the places with armed escorts. However, my company will also give me a "blood chit", a document stating exactly how much ransom they'll pay for me and directions on how to collect it. eek I guess it's their method of being prepared...

-Blast


That's good to hear...your company will pay to get you back, my company actually has a life insurance policy on me so the company gets paid if I die.

And to think, some people call me paranoid frown
_________________________
"It's a legal system, not a justice system!"

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#94226 - 05/09/07 09:52 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: NightHiker]
frenchy Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 1320
Loc: France
Yes, definitely, in Negeria, get a security escort. IIRC, some Israeli private agency offers bodyguards.. or is it in Lagos.. ??
OTOH, in Paris, a girl could be a good enough escort...
;o))
_________________________
Alain

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#94227 - 05/09/07 10:03 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: frenchy]
frenchy Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 1320
Loc: France
Ooopss... hope your DW doesn't see that .....
;o))
_________________________
Alain

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#94236 - 05/09/07 11:49 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: gatormba]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
"...the company gets paid if I die..."

Sounds like it is time to go job hunting...
_________________________
OBG

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#94241 - 05/10/07 12:38 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Unless you are going to be regularly taking the subway at 2 am, I wouldn't worry too much. If you are going at odd hours, then don't go alone. If you have to go alone, then just act casual but stay alert and if it looks like you are getting marked then just keep your cool and think it through.

If I were going anywhere hot, I would be looking for seasoned South African vets. Reed Security group had a sterling rep in Iraq. They'd be my goto agency if I ever needed to worry about that sort of thing again.

_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#94262 - 05/10/07 05:44 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: benjammin]
Tom_L Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 690
Hope this doesn't add too much fuel to the fire but check out this link for some insights on Paris (and mind you, that article was written a while ago, before the great riots last year):
http://www.realfighting.com/1102/FredPerrinART.html

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#94273 - 05/10/07 12:45 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Tom_L]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Geezez, I just don't get it. The world is so quick to criticize our lax attitude toward gun control, and yet articles like this get published. I thought France had a very stringent gun control program, and yet it seems people there are as well armed as some of the neighborhoods in Baghdad were, or south central LA!!!

Look this cuts both ways. Going to another city in another country anywhere in the world isn't gonna be that much different from some of the places right here in our own country. If anyone thinks Paris has somehow cornered the market on violent crime, then come visit me here in NYC sometime and I will have the cabbie take you places that will turn you white and straighten your short and curlys right out.

So I will repeat it one more time, whenever you are going somewhere new in the world, have the right mindset, do a little advance planning, make some good contacts, and don't be stupid, foolish or insulting.

I don't wanna hear about how belligerent a country we are anymore for a while. London, Glasgow, and Belfast certainly aren't paragons of virtue and brotherly love these days anymore than Detroit, Chicago and Houston are. The whole world is a bloody violent place to be in. Like Rocky says, this world will beat you to your knees and keep you there if you let it. You can't step in the ring and expect to not get hit. That's just the way it goes. You gotta be willing to get in there, take what's coming, put up your best defense, and get your licks in when the opportunity comes.

There is no tapping out on the street. That, my friends, is life.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#94308 - 05/10/07 07:16 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: benjammin]
Themalemutekid Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/17/06
Posts: 351
Loc: New Jersey
You know how "they" say, that dogs smell fear? Well so do thugs, they smell it & more importantly they see it in your eyes.I lived in the Bronx for like 4 years (cheap rent) & I never had a problem.I roamed the streets at all hours of the night & never felt that my life was at danger. Twice I was almost robbed, once at gunpoint the other at knifepoint.Both times they looked into my eyes, saw no fear and left me alone.The guys with the gun knew me from around the neighborhood & the ones with the knife robbed my 2 friends that I was with and let me be.What I do is, where ever I am, I act like I belong.I also carry myself in a way that shows that i'm not a "mark", I look everyone in the eyes. One thing i've learned is, young guys think that you are being disrespectful if you ignore them as you pass them on a sidwalk.It's like it's been written here before, just blend in, & don't look like you don't belong. If you do these things, you should be fine.
_________________________
....he felt the prompting of his heritage, the desire to possess, the wild danger-love, the thrill of battle, the power to conquer or to die. Jack London

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#94314 - 05/10/07 07:46 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
frenchy Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 1320
Loc: France
No problemo, amigo !

"Demonstrators" mainly set cars on fire. I guess you won't be coming with your car. See ? No problemo !

I used quotation marks, because I'm wondering... if you look at the numbers of cars sold by Renault and Peugeot (french main car manufacturers) last year, you can see a definite decline. So... may be those apparent "demonstrations" are in fact secretly sponsored by these car manufacturers .... just to boost their sales ... crazy

_________________________
Alain

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#94342 - 05/11/07 01:35 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
stealthedc Offline


Registered: 02/11/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Durham NC
Side note to subway systems and being a foreigner in them.

I had my pocket picked (wallet stolen) in mexico city's metro.

Then I remember somebody saying "that's why I carry my wallet in the front pocket".

I'll be darned if my wallet was picked less han a week later from the front pocket, and I didn't feel a thing.

Carry an el cheapo dummy wallet with maybe the metro map and a couple euros, and keep anything valuable in a belt wallet. Not a wallet with a string that goes around your waste, but a thin single compartment zipper wallet with a belt loop that goes on your belt and tucks in your pants.

And if you cannot enter the subway car with at least 1 or two feet of personal space, you are probably being attempted to be pick pocketed. If there are a ton of people pushing to get on the car, you are probably being pick pocketed. Do not try to be the first on the car, rather hang back and let ohters in first...

_________________________
EDC, Mini PSK, PSK, Fishing PSK, Diaper Bag Kit, Portable Office, Vehicle Kit (X2), 72 Hour Kit, 7 Day Kit, SIP Kit and a Kit-Kat. Oh yeah, and a FAK (X10). Now where did I put the Tums?

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#94380 - 05/11/07 01:27 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: stealthedc]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Sounds like my daily commute on the 2/3 in Manhattan.

1. Keep wallet in vest pocket in leather jacket; pocket has a zipper.

2. Wallet is checkbook size, not back pocket size.

3. If not wearing jacket, then wallet in zipped up SA attache.

4. So tall that thieves have ergonomic issues trying to reach vest pockets.

Last year I was walking along busy downtown route with SA attache slung as backpack. Walked past a big window and saw the reflection of someone behind me with hand in top of backpack. Whatever he was after, he was having too much trouble reaching up so high to fish around for it without me noticing. Unfortunately for him, not only did I catch him in the act, but so did the plain clothes detective across the street. Funny how quick the crowd opened up to give us some confrontational space, just before the cop got there with cuffs in one hand and radio in the other. Stupid kid went to hoosgow and I didn't even have to testify, since the cop saw the whole shlemeegle.

Yet another alternative I have is a smaller messenger bag that I can throw over a shoulder that secures my goods when I travel. In any event, except for the one case of dumba$$ cited above, I've never had anyone else even try to pick my pockets here. I routinely carry between $20 and $200 in my front pocket loose, and even after pulling the wad in and out in front of everyone, nobody ever makes a try for it. I wouldn't recommend being this reckless to the average person; for me I think it is that my presence is intimidating enough that most just figure it isn't worth the risk.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#94467 - 05/12/07 03:43 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: benjammin]
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
A friend of mine used to work for a company in CA that had its offices on one side of the street and its parking lot on the other. Both were just a block or so away from the rescue mission/homeless shelter.

When my friend had to leave work late (after dark) and alone occasionally, she would leave the building in the mode of someone seriously p***ed off, talking to herself (cussing), walking stiff and angry. A couple of times, a guy or two would start heading in her direction, read her body language, and they would ease off in some other direction.

Body language is probably quite universal, and many troublesome sorts may think that attacking someone who is already angry and upset may not be a smart move.

When I last lived in Las Vegas (14 yrs ago), there was an article in the newspaper that mentioned in one weekend, plainclothes police caught 116 pickpockets working the airport. They didn't catch the good ones. Nor did they catch the pickpockets working the buses, casinos, malls and sidewalks.

One guy I met had his wife sew a velcro closure inside his favorite jacket pocket. It made so much noise when he opened it, that he knew no one was stupid enough to try to get into it.

Sue

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#94497 - 05/12/07 11:53 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Susan]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
Precisely the point, exude a little attitude, but keep it measured, reserved even. Don't go looking for trouble, and don't make it easy for the thieves.

Sounds like your friend would've fit right in here in New York, at least the parts I travel in.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#94510 - 05/13/07 02:17 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
A goat roper worrying about the litle old french tradition of rioting? Rent a copy of MIZ and practise AUX BARRICADES! or point in the opposite direction and yell JERRY LEWIS!

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#94547 - 05/13/07 06:48 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Chris Kavanaugh]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Chris,

You must be pretty busy right now, you've forgotten you already teased me on this subject. Increase the ginko my friend. grin

I wonder if this subject would have gone better if I left out Paris and just asked for general riot tips? Or is being prepared for riots while in a strange city outside the subject matter of this board?

-Blast
_________________________
Foraging Texas
Medicine Man Plant Co.
DrMerriwether on YouTube
Radio Call Sign: KI5BOG
*As an Amazon Influencer, I may earn a sales commission on Amazon links in my posts.

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#94560 - 05/14/07 01:27 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
benjammin Offline
Rapscallion
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 4020
Loc: Anchorage AK
I dunno, certainly some of the content on this thread (especially some of mine) really belonged on the campfire forum. I guess it doesn't always go as planned.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

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#94568 - 05/14/07 02:48 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: OldBaldGuy]
DBAGuy Offline
dedicated member

Registered: 03/02/04
Posts: 165
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
Absolutely OldBaldGuy.

I can go to mountains, desert, beaches, forests of all kinds without leaving my country. True we dont have a bunch of old buildings like the Euros, but I can live with that.

... and I can legally defend myself from MZBs.
_________________________
ZOMBIES! I hate ZOMBIES.

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#94569 - 05/14/07 02:58 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: frenchy]
DBAGuy Offline
dedicated member

Registered: 03/02/04
Posts: 165
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
Frenchy

You mean THIS isnt happening any more?

Just a bunch of guys out for fun huh?
_________________________
ZOMBIES! I hate ZOMBIES.

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#94576 - 05/14/07 03:32 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: DBAGuy]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
We might even come spend some money in your state one of these days, we are pretty close. For a few months at least...
_________________________
OBG

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#94584 - 05/14/07 04:34 AM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
marduk Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 160
Loc: Mid-Missouri
Blast, good luck in Paris.
We’ve been there several times, most recently last summer. We traveled on the Metro all hours of the day without problems (except those 2 pickpocket attempts – unsuccessful). If you carry a Palm, a useful program for navigating the Metro is “MetrO” (available at http://www.nanika.net/metro/).

To further “pass” as a Canadian you can get a “Canadian” passport cover, actually any country, that will pass casual scrutiny.

Having a pocket phrasebook can help. I think mine is a Lonely Planet version (on loan), it’s more practically oriented than most phrasebooks.


Edited by marduk (05/14/07 12:50 PM)
Edit Reason: URL corrected
_________________________
"Sometimes, it's better to be lucky than skillfull"


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#94651 - 05/14/07 10:43 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: DBAGuy]
frenchy Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 1320
Loc: France
well... you know... kids.. too much vitality... they need to loosen up, sometimes ....
crazy

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#94656 - 05/14/07 11:43 PM Re: Surviving riots? [Re: Blast]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Blast,

From all the responses on this thread, it looks like your certainly going to have an adventure traveling to all those countries. As a Texan Oilman traveling to Scotland, why not get hold of the film ' Local Hero '. Same story line as in the film. This would probably be nearer the mark if you make it to Scotland. Just have a look around some of the fishing villages along the coast south of Aberdeen and try and make it to Braemar if you get the chance, but don't ask where you can get a Automatic Assault Rifle, you'll get some strange looks. Good Luck.








Edited by bentirran (05/14/07 11:46 PM)

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