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#92523 - 04/26/07 05:29 AM Re: Minority Report - for real [Re: ]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
Quote:
Congress may overturn an executive order by passing legislation in conflict with it or by refusing to approve funding to enforce it. In the former, the president retains the power to veto such a decision; however, the Congress may override a veto with a two-thirds majority to end an executive order


Executive orders on wikipedia

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#92524 - 04/26/07 05:31 AM Re: Minority Report - for real [Re: Susan]
redflare Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 647
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
If even one tenth of this info is true, its still completely outrageous.

Hearsay and anonymous testimony are admissible!
Reminds me of the good old Stalinist Russia, where all you needed to forever get rid of your "annoying" neighbors, was a trip to your friendly local NKVD office. mad

Someone from England, please tell us we are missing something!?

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#92528 - 04/26/07 05:57 AM Re: Minority Report - for real [Re: redflare]
aloha Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 1059
Loc: Hawaii, USA
Originally Posted By: redflare

Hearsay and anonymous testimony are admissible!



Enemy combatants' accusations are getting our troops in trouble. That load of crock makes me think some of this stuff isn't so far fetched when our politicians use our brave men and women as pawns in their political games and the seamingly corrupt media is amplifying all this. mad

Sorry about the rant, but this is ridiculous!
_________________________
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http://hanzosoutdoors.blogspot.com/

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#92531 - 04/26/07 10:37 AM Re: Minority Report - for real [Re: UTAlumnus]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Congress may overturn an executive order by passing legislation in conflict with it or by refusing to approve funding to enforce it. In the former, the president retains the power to veto such a decision; however, the Congress may override a veto with a two-thirds majority to end an executive order. It has been argued that a Congressional override of an executive order is a nearly impossible event due to the super majority vote required and the fact that such a vote leaves individual lawmakers very vulnerable to political criticism.


So in effect the Congress has about as much chance overturning an Executive Order as agreeing to whether they would all agree to order a Pizza or Chinese takeaway.

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#92551 - 04/26/07 02:11 PM Re: Minority Report - for real [Re: brandtb]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
No I don't. The Judicary in the UK has a demonstrated history of striking down law's that are considered unjust. Which is an advantage of an appointed judicary. They don't have to worry about appeasing the masses or politicians.
Also, these laws are intended for use against - for example- a diagnosed paranoid or schitzophrenic who won't accept treatment. It's a lot more humane than sectioning them.

Too many people have been murdered in the UK by people who where known to be a problem or risk/threat, but the authorities have been unable to act against.

I understand where the civil liberties groups are coming from, and such powers do admit of abuse. But, and it's a major but, you have to balance the rights of an individual against the rights and needs of all the individual's in a society. Which is why you need these powers. But you also need a check on those powers that prevent there misuse.

_________________________
I don't do dumb & helpless.

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#92559 - 04/26/07 03:14 PM Re: Minority Report - for real [Re: Susan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Re Susan

Looks like ASBOs have been around since Arthurian times.

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#92570 - 04/26/07 04:14 PM Re: Minority Report - for real [Re: ]
UTAlumnus Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/08/03
Posts: 1019
Loc: East Tennessee near Bristol
You're right about over turning one. If it's not funded it's mighty difficult to enforce. If it's a big enough issue they could hold up the entire budget except for some emergency spending (i.e. minimal funding for critical departments).

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#92577 - 04/26/07 04:41 PM Re: Minority Report - for real [Re: UTAlumnus]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Do National Security Executive Orders have any Congressional oversight considering these are kept top secret even from the prying eyes of the members of Congress. Could funding for these Executive Orders be provided from Black Project accounts. Apparently on 10th September 2001 the Pentagon couldn't account for $2,400,000,000,000 worth of transactions.

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#92582 - 04/26/07 05:16 PM Re: Minority Report - for real [Re: ]
gatormba Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 136
Loc: Alabama
Yes there is oversight by the House and Senate Intelligence Committee to which the President's National Security Advisor and several other high ranking officials in the intelligence world are required to give briefings. The President cannot do anything without the eventual approval and oversight of Congress. For example, even the Presidental War Powers Act only permits the President to wage war for a short period of time before getting to approval of Congress.

The problem for Congress with the "war on terror" is that they gave the President almost blanket approval to fight the terrorists without any specific defined goal of victory which would call an end to his power to wage this war. Because there is not a well defined enemy such as in the case of WWII the President could in theory wage the war on terror indefinitely or until the Congress passed a bill repealing his power and Congress was then able to also override the President's veto of that bill (which is exactly where we seem to be headed this week although the Congress does not have the necessary votes to override the coming veto.)

As to the whole issue of Executive Orders, legally it is extremely questionable as to whether or not they are even constitutional. There is nothing in the Constitution that explicitly gives the President the power to issue executive orders and more importantly there IS a provision in the constitution that expressly reserves the power to make laws to the Congress.
_________________________
"It's a legal system, not a justice system!"

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#92589 - 04/26/07 05:28 PM Re: Minority Report - for real [Re: ]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
The Supreme Court has the ability to spank either of the two branches. And if Shrub thinks that the current Court will rubber stamp him, he's missed comments made outside of the court by some of the Justices. The problem is is that it has to go through the steps up the ladder, and that takes time.
_________________________
-IronRaven

When a man dare not speak without malice for fear of giving insult, that is when truth starts to die. Truth is the truest freedom.

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