Just curious is anyone thinks there is any reason to carry a firesteel rather than the magnesium bars with built-in misch metal. Seems having the magnesium despite it's drawbacks still beats having to create shavings from dry wood or search for other tinder to catch flame from firesteel. any thoughts? thanks in advance.

It's the same flint either way.

A lot of people don't like mag blocks- I like them, but I always have a file on me to.

BIC

A magnesium bar still requires tinder. Given that such a critical item and skill takes up so little space, I am amazed people go brain dead for the next step. We have jelly impregnated cotton balls, SPARKLITE tinder tabs, birthday candles, potassium permanganate, charcloth and magnesium. None of these are exactly sufficient to roast that pig from LORD OF THE FLIES. People should carry, at minimum, a few sticks of Fatwood. I say Fatwood, not that overpriced sawdust called Mayawood. I have yet to fail lighting a tinder tab with a Sparklite. I have also yet to fail ingniting a fatwood stick off the tab. FIRE + TINDER + KINDLING + MAINFUEL= warmth and survival. Think about which step most people are weakest at.

The guide to mag blocks from Dougs Gear section is copied below. Yes I know it's sad how we all keep asking questions when we should simply look at the 'FAQ's. I wrote a quiz for one newsgroup, based on the FAQ's and one chap was amazed how much was in the FAQ's; and he'd written then!
Simon

The magnesium block by Doan (1 x 3 x 3/8 in.) with an integral 3/16 in. flint rod glued on top (also manufactured for other companies and for the military) is still popular, at least in part because it is widely available at the consumer level. Unfortunately, the magnesium is not necessarily as effective a tinder as you may be led to believe. While the flame from the magnesium shavings is extremely hot, this flame is also relatively short lived. Additionally, the magnesium scraping/shavings can be difficult to use as tinder in some circumstances because they are so light they tend to blow away with the slightest breeze. Moreover, scraping together a small pile can be difficult at times. So, the bottom line is that they work, but the magnesium tinder has some limitations that must be understood and dealt with.

Other fire starters incorporating flint and magnesium are made by Mag/Flint Firestarters, World Survival Institute and others.

The World Survival Institute (WSI) fire starters include slim rods of flint and magnesium glued end to end on top of a length of hardwood and come in a variety of sizes, all relatively small. A leather thong a hardened steep scraper/striker (a piece of a hacksaw blade). The wood can also serve as tinder. This is a more versatile design, but the wood must be kept dry to be of much use as tinder. While the flints are smaller, they will still give you thousands of strikes. There is a lot less magnesium than the block style offers, but it will do for plenty of fires, certainly enough for any typical survival situation.

Mag/Flint and others sell flint and magnesium fire starters with large rods of magnesium and a small flint attached with a handle affixed to the end, usually made of antler or wood. These are often seen at fairs and primitive survival gatherings. With the exception of the fancy handle, they are no different than the block style, with all the same advantages and disadvantages. The handle can make it easier to work with, but the difference isn't all that great. The handle tends to raise the price and size quite a bit.

I carry just the flint - a BSA Hot Spark, on my knife with a small aluminum pill fob filled with a couple cotton/petroleum balls. That's in addition to the ubiquitous Zippo.

I agree with you, I guess I was wondering why one would choose the firesteel only over the magnesium version. The firesteel seems very popular here (I own and experiment with both). I don't believe my question was necessarily answered by reading FAQ's, because I understand how to use both.

It takes very little magnesium scraped off (hacksaw blade) with a little strip of birch bark on the edge to get flame. without the magnesium one needs the tinderquick, cotton balls etc. If the choice was one or the other, would not the added benefit of the magnesium make it a no brainer? Even if you carry tinderquick and cotton balls as well; the magnesium and a hacksaw blade would have you making fires long after your tinderquick or cottonballs were gone (assuming a longer term survival situation). anyway, thanks for the reply.

A firesteel is about a 1000x easier to use and is a lot faster as you don't need to shave/file magnesium bits. Also those little bits have a nasty way of blowing away in the breeze.

Of all the methods to start a fire, the magnesium bar is WAY down on the my list - sits right above the "rub two sticks together" method for ease of use.

Windproof Lighter
Bic Lighter
Stormproof matches
Strike anywhere matches
Firesteel
Kitchen matches
Book matches
Spark-lite
Battery/steel wool
.
.
Magnesium bar
"Rub two sticks together"

I've never tried a blast match, primitive bow drill or plow method so I can't rank those.

Your mileage may vary.

The "flint" part of the magnesium block is idential material to the firesteel - you get the same sparks from either one. How can it be considered so inferior - even if you never use the magnesium?

If space were not at a premium I would happily carry the mag bar. But it is, so I don't. I agree with the others that you are much better off using the extra space for Wetfire, Tinderquick, or treated cotton balls than relying solely on the mag shavings.

That said, the last mag bar I carried I cut about 2/3 of the magnesium portion off with a hacksaw. That left enough magnesium to still be useful while saving a bunch of space. A cut-down mag bar plus some other tinder would give you the option of using either one.

I have a small mag/fero on my keychain which is probably no bigger than a AA battery. It is predrilled with a hole for a ring, and has a fero rod glued into a channel on a round bar of magnesium:



I got this a long time ago, it throws some great sparks. Although there's less magnesium than a full bar, I am amazed at how little magnesium you need to get your tinder going if it's well prepared. I'll try to find the place I bought this and post it later.

I didn't say I didn't use it. I said there were a couple things I didn't use so they weren't ranked.

The small flint on the magnesium bar was OK but my knife blade won't spark it that well. The magnesium bar itself is a waste of time. You can build yourself a good birdsnest from natural sources in half the time it takes to scrape enough material from the bar (and keep it from blowing away.)

Carbon steel scrapers work MUCH better than stainless, and to a degree, duller seems to work better. I find the back of a hacksaw blade works better than anything else I've found.

I would rather have a ferro rod and a piece of fatwood than the magnesium bar. Don't get me wrong, I have and have used the magnesium bar, but my personal preference is the fatwood.

Since we are going camping tomorrow, I stopped and gathered some tinder yesterday. I believe it is eucalyptus tree bark. I have used it before and it works great. I gathered enough for a couple of tinder bundles and will use them this weekend for our campfires. I have started this type of tinder bundle going with just one spark from a ferro rod. Granted, the spark was huge! But I will still have some fatwood with me for in case of damp wood.

Personal preference, as you said. I've never been able to find fatwood locally- how many fires would you be able to start with a piece half the size of a USGI mag block?

I carry my mag block to use when I've got the time, in much the same way I might carry a fire piston or a fire bow.

I have no idea how many it will start, but I know it doesn't take much effort to use and it works very well.

I think compairing a mag block to a fatwood is like comparing snare wire and fishing gear to MREs. One works right now once, one works many times. Would we take out the thimble-sized fishing kit and 15 feet of snare wire for another slimjim or tiny roll of malted milk tabled? I hope not.

That is why I always scratch my head when people are critical of the mag block in kits- sure, the full sized one is oversized, but even a small one is good for hundreds of fires with no moving parts other than a one-piece metal scraper, which saves matches, lighters, tinderquik, PJ balls, and fat wood for when it really is an emergency rather than being inconveniently misplaced. I've never found them hard to use- you just need to understand that it is going to take more than 60 seconds to get a decent sized shavings pile.

I think for me, I haven't needed to use the magnesium to start a fire when I use the ferro rod method. Like most things, preparation before starting leads to greater success. The fatwood is my cheat in case of very damp wood.

I gather tinder when I see something good and stick it in a ziploc to keep dry. Usually if things are wet, I make a bigger tinder bundle and use more knidling.

IR, my guess is you probably have no trouble starting your fires and like the magnesium for your "just in case."

Don't get me wrong IR. I am not saying anything bad about the magnesium bar. I actually have one in my backpack when I am out and about. I have just never used it other than to practice with it. I haven't even scraped a piece of fatwood for "maya dust" other than to practice too.

OH, I have trouble firestarted with just a spark. That's why I like to have something to catch with, like 0000 steel wool or magnesium. I freely admit to cheating. Heck, if I need fire RIGHT NOW, I like highway flares for tinder.

I'm beginning to feel a little backward my flint is my primary tool for starting a fire, I use it first and save the lighter and matches for when I'm in trouble.

raydarkhorse, then i am backwards too.

Magnesium + Belly-button lint = Fire

Legal disclaimer: As good as a storage compartment as it seems,do not put Magnesium in the belly-button to light the fire.

Personally, IMHO, there is no substitute for flint & steel. I am NOT claiming to be even a "sometimes practicioner", in fact, I've never been able to start a fire with flint and steel. I do know that it is possible. With practice, it is even pretty quick to do, and I know that when all else fails, I will get the darn thing to spark, so I can have a fire!!!!!

That said, I admit that my "preferred cheating method" of starting a fire with damp or wet wood is to pile a great deal
of twigs on top of a Triox tablet and touch the tablet with a lighted match. Then I pile on bigger sticks and so on, and I have a glorious fire very quickly.

I know, I should be ashamed of myself,and I am!!!!!!

Additional note: I also carry magnesium firestarter as well because, when I want a fire, I want the fire now!

+1 for using the fire steel/ferro rod first. Mine is pulled from a StrikeForce: 1/2" x 2 1/4" of pyrotechnic wonder. Fine shave some wood or pull out a Coghlan's Emergency Tinder and flames will soon appear.

The only downside I have ever found with the magnesium bar/firesteel is with a round version I had.....the magnesium was drilled for carry...which I did on a keychain and sometime during carry the firesteel dropped off the magnesium.

The glue bond has always bothered me and I will no longer carry such combo sets on a keychain or where the loss of the firesteel is likely.

I almost never ever bothered with the Mg shavings though.

I have worried a little about that before too. I have carried this current one on my keychain for 5+ years, and it still seems very secure, but, I wonder if the epoxy eventually weakens? I included a picture of it in an earlier post. The rod is glued/epoxied to the magnesium, which has a slot routed into it that the bar is layed into. How long had you carried yours before it fell apart? Thx

Mine was very similar to yours and I am guessing I lost the firesteel rod within a year of carrying it. It may have dropped out long before I noticed, but one day I just looked at it and all I had was useless magnesium.

These combos seem fine in a kit or a pouch or something where the glue giveing way would not provide the useless part.

I have a Doan that I have had for probably 2 decades and it is still glued. I have no idea who made the one I had but regardless I consider the design a flaw. The firesteel should be the drilled part. Who cares if the Mg falls off.

You could always put a ranger band around it to make sure the flint doesn't fall off. I just toss mine in the first aid kit as a redundant backup.

That's interesting. I originally had it covered with electrical shrink wrap tubing, but, then one day I needed to use it, and cut off the shrink wrap... and that was about 3 years ago, and it's still not shrink wrapped again. Something that can be slipped on and off is a good idea.

Personal preference. Use what works for you - neither are any good if you can't get a fire going with them.

And Chris K is right on the money - I always have some fatwood. Cut a store-bought piece into thirds, pre-split one into toothpick sized pieces, and toss all of it in with the PJ cotton balls. A pinch of a cotton ball and 3-4 little bits of fatwood will start anything but dripping wet kindling everytime for me.

I've almost forgotten how to use a BIC or matches - I always use a FC rod. EDC, left front pocket, BSA HotSpark quick-clipped to a tiny Meyerco lock back (triple redundant knife). Clip is sort of like a tiny Fastex with a keyring on each end - came with the knife and wish I could find a source of them.

The FC rods that Martin sells are awesome - I can start birch bark, dry grass, pounded cedar bark, etc directly without any intermediates. One is in my pack as an uber back-up to my Hot Spark.

Personally, the mag bars are a waste of space/time/effort. But that's my personal preference <grin>. Happy scraping.

Tom

I recently replaced my aging flint/magnesium blocks. After carrying them and using them for many years they were in bad shape. I looked on ebay and found the flint rods, about 1/4 thick by about 4 inches long. Five for about $15.00. I also found someone selling magnesium shavings, a gallon ziplock full for about $10.00.
I now carry my flint rod and two match cases tied together. One match case has cotton balls/pj and the other has the shavings.
I have found that they light easy and a small pile of the shavings not only burns with a flame for several minutes but it leaves a red hot ember for about five minutes. The 4000 degree flame will light almost anything even if it is cold and wet outside.
I always carry a lighter, stick matches and lifeboat matches as well. Although the flint is my backup I find myself lighting my fires with it just for the practice.

The problem with preshaved magnesium is that as it oxidizes, it gets harder to light. On a mag block, it is pretty much confined to the surface, like in aluminum, but when you have shavings, you mostly only have surface.

I never thought about that. I will have to leave some outside for a while and test it again after it oxidizes.

If space is available carry the Mag/Flint, better to have it and not need it than be in a situation of needing it and not having it.
When it comes to something as important as Fire, always have back ups to include PJ cotton balls, Fatwood etc.

Actually, I like the weak bond between the flint bar and the mag bar. I just pry out the flint bar, fashion a epoxy handle for one end and when the epoxy has dried and set, drill a lanyard hole and viola! your own firesteel for half the cost.....

I too don't care very much about the magnesium....

I have never considered the mag bar 'bulky'

Easy firestarting is PJCB and a spark from something...sparklite, mag bar flint, firesteel, hot spark...whatever

The mag is a good little extra umpfffh for less than optimal natural tinder or I want to practice.

A mag bar and a 35mm film can of PJCB is a great minimal fire kit.

Is it better to make some magnesium shavings before hand and keep them in a water proof container? or it is dangerous to have the magnesium shavings stored?

see this post, same thread

From personal experience:
Tinder-Quick tabs make a critical differance. Irrespective of which firesteel or magnesium block you use. They either take a spark directly or can be used to catch magnesium shaving. If you need to boost the initial thermal impulse.

Maya wood or fatwood is second stage tinder. It's excellent as a booster (as shavings),but I would not be happy relying on it in a shivering wet This Fire Light's The First Time Or I Am Dead situation.

If you have Tinder-Quick, you don't need magnesium.