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#90671 - 04/07/07 07:39 PM Re: Old but deadly rifle [Re: Tom_L]
billym Offline
Addict

Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
True enough.

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#90672 - 04/07/07 08:06 PM Re: Old but deadly rifle [Re: billym]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
Apaches are completely armored, tub under, plexiglass windscreen. I have challenge that the apache was shot down with a rifle. I have seen these things take abuse in the field, and there is absoluetly no way it was taken down by a farmer with a rifle. IIRC, the Apache in question crashed due to flight computer problems. The US army tests their equipment before being sent into battle, and one thing tested is armor.
Besides, knowing the quality of a farmers firearms (non-maintained, usually pieced together from several different rifles), and the notorious inaccuracy of the average Iraqi, to suggest to the rest of the world that a multimillion dollar machine was taken down by an illiterate indigenous person is a classic David and Goliath story. However, this ohe was entirely untrue.

Also, this was reported in Afghansistan during the 80's as well, that Mujahideen were shooting down Hind choppers. This did happen, at least once, until the pilots had their glass replaced, And learned to fly higher than the ridgeline (the cockpit configuration is one pilot ontop of the other).
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#90676 - 04/07/07 08:46 PM Re: Old but deadly rifle [Re: oldsoldier]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Re - oldsoldier

Are you saying that the Apache helicopter is completely and utterly impervious to a .303 bullet no matter where the bullet strikes the aircraft. I think the following refers to the Apache in question.

Wikipedia quote

'Recent reports indicate that the helicopter is vulnerable to ground forces in certain environments, such as when operating in urban terrain. Since 2003, Iraqi ground troops and insurgents were able to damage propulsion and flight control systems with ground fire, sometimes forcing the helicopters to make immediate emergency landings or shooting them down. During Operation Iraqi Freedom, some Apaches were damaged in combat, including one captured by Iraqi troops near Karbala on March 24, 2003, and shown on Iraqi television. The captured helicopter was destroyed via airstrike the day after it was captured.[3] The March 24 attack, against an armored brigade of the Iraqi PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. Guard's Medina Division, was largely unsuccessful, apparently because the tank crews had set up a "flak trap" in broken terrain, employing their HMGs to good effect.[4][5] More recently two Apaches were lost along with their crews between January 28 and February 2, 2007 to Iraqi insurgent ground fire in Taji and Najaf.[6]'

EDIT

There is a CNN link with a video clip -
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/24/sprj.irq.apache.attack/index.html

I am not sure if this refers to the incident involving the Iraqi farmer or was another seperate Apache downing incident. It would be interesting to find and view the original footage from 2003 with the Iraqi farmers 'bagged Apache' to determine if it was one of 'Baghdad Bobs' propaganda pieces.












Edited by bentirran (04/07/07 09:14 PM)

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#90686 - 04/08/07 12:15 AM Re: Old but deadly rifle [Re: ]
akabu Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 97
Loc: Brooklyn NY
The only deadly weapon is a Man, the rest are just tools too an end, a brick or a rope . The .303 is a fine tool robust and simple and accurate.We have a differant culture and it's part of our freedom's .Britain had the same not that far in your history, but I guess thats not taught anymore.


Edited by akabu (04/08/07 12:16 AM)

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#90687 - 04/08/07 12:28 AM Re: Old but deadly rifle [Re: MDinana]
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
If I may quote my former employer Zubillulah Nasiri, former Mujahadeen and now Saab mechanic in SOCAL; Afghan's carried various SMLE's, 98 mausers, the old flintlock singleshots and a smaller number of AK 47s. These weapons proved even the fabled Kalashnikov lacking by simply sniping the soviets from the superior ranges of these weapons. Lets look at small arms worldwide. At this time there are 2 military small arms for every man,woman and child on this planet, and growing. Most of these are not the widely distributed AK, but predominently weapons from the USA and the west. A rising proportion of the 'soldiers' carrying weapons often taller than they are CHILDREN. Now, it seems to me the cost of two firearms could buy a lot of rice and beans, some clean water, cooking pot, cooking oil and maybe a few basic innoculations. This obscenity of small arms is killing people on both ends; the victim on the muzzle end and the second victim on the butt end.So the next time you buy a brick of .22s to barter with in some post apocalyptic porno fantasy send an equal amount to any number of worthy charities.

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#90688 - 04/08/07 12:30 AM Re: Old but deadly rifle [Re: ]
desertrat1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Kingman AZ
Most media outlets in the us are slanted to the left, but PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. News Network (CNN) is the worst and their news reports should be taken with some sceptisism. Just like Peter Arnet during the first Gulf War CNN likes to stab the US in the back when ever possible. You know they are under the influence of Ted Turner and Hanoi Jane.
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