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#90465 - 04/05/07 02:55 PM The definitive EMP effects thread
garland Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 170
Loc: harrisburg, pa
*** LONG POST WARNING***

*edit warning - I'm making sure this is contentually accurate. I'm changing it as it evolves.*

Many of you have been chattering in regards to the book 'lights out' which is generously provided free online for our reading pleasure. The topic (for those who are not aware) is that a series of massive EMP-based nuclear strikes knock out a great deal of 'versatile solutions for modern living' (to quote fight club).

That being said, there's alot of misinformation about EMP both in the book AND in online forums. This is not to say that people are purposely giving bad info. Just that the effects are poorly understood. The goal of this thread is to provide definitive effects of EMP. Since EMP is a widely debated phenomenon, feel free to disagree - just make sure you can point to evidence. Likewise, I'm trying to point to evidence with this document so that it's contentually accurate.

I'm going to first give you a few links for your own enjoyment to which you can use to get a background on what I'm going to talk about.. Warning. I'm not an engineer. Just a geek. Geeks and engineers are like minded but I may make mistakes so feel free to correct me. This is (to the best of my knowledge) correct information.

First:
Senate briefing on EMP effects: http://www.americandefenseforces.com/empspeech.pdf
This should be considered the most up to date document though most of our knowledge of EMP effects has remained the same since the early 80's.


Nuclear War Survival skills: http://www.oism.org/nwss/s73p913.htm
Nuclear EMP effects: http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/nuke/emp.htm
Good info from Aussurv: http://www.aussurvivalist.com/nuclear/empprotection.htm
Good info from AR: http://www.alpharubicon.com/basicnbc/empfacts.html

What is an emp? There are a couple of ways it is caused but basically the radiation strips off the electrons causing a massive wave front. It can occur locally (SREMP) for several miles, at high altitude (HEMP) for several hundred miles or in space to span several thousand miles (if not the planet). Each one has moderately different effects, mostly because of the earth's magnetic field.

One interesting thing is that EMPs are line of sight.

Further, another interesting thing is that most vehicles may not be killed. This may be in that they operate as a sort of mini-faraday cage. Small electronics with cables or antennae less than 30 inches in length should not fry. This is said because the cables/antennae are basically giant signal concentrators which can cause massive power spikes.

Planes are an odd bird in need of more research. Basically the aluminum skin and frame allow for the energy to pass around most of it, however apparently electronics are vulnerable. Now the nice thing is that aircraft electronics are required to be shielded against lightning (which is many million volts but concentrated on one area versus across a broad wavefront). For now I offer two links for which to supplement this:

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel1/15/2584/00078349.pdf?arnumber=78349

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/2003FF/lightning/flight.html

How much power does an emp generate? Well, from what I remembered the starfish EMP generated 5 kilovolts per meter (kv/m). Apparently there is now technology to hit around 500 kv/m and upwards of 4,000 amps per meter. These are extremely short bursts but generally afterwards there is a sustained burst which can really stress-test even shielded equipment.

Can an emp kill me like lightning? No. Not unless you're near something that can concentrate the signal. Like next to a cell phone tower or on a metal girder. *edit - don't forget pacemakers or other internal electronics might be affected*
Logically it makes sense that getting hit with a few hundred thousand volts/amps should kill you but I can't find any evidence to support this.

What WILL get killed? Probably everything outdoors, particularly communications related. Think TV, satellite(s), cell phone, radio, etc. Phone/Power grids would most likely be completely overloaded due to their long copper wires. Internal electronics tied to the building's power supply will likely fry, moreso if they are powered on. If they're powered off it provides some measure of protection (along with saving you some green on your power bill).

What may not get killed? Small isolated electronics which are battery powered with short antennae. Think radios, cell phones, portable video game systems, tv's, pdas, etc.

Never hurts to plan for the worst though.

I'll post more as it comes.


Edited by garland (04/06/07 07:15 PM)
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#90470 - 04/05/07 03:40 PM Re: The definitive EMP effects thread [Re: garland]
Blast Offline
INTERCEPTOR
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 3760
Loc: TX
Ah, so my iPod will survive. Cool, tunes in the wreckage.

Hmmm, on second thought, putting all my survival documents on the iPod might be worthwhile...

-Blast
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#90471 - 04/05/07 03:52 PM Re: The definitive EMP effects thread [Re: Blast]
garland Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 170
Loc: harrisburg, pa
Also - dc motors will be relatively unaffected so if you can get a hand-crank charger for said item you should be good to go smile ... you can endure TEOTWAWKI in style smile
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#90473 - 04/05/07 04:21 PM Re: The definitive EMP effects thread [Re: garland]
falcon5000 Offline
Addict

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 662
One thing we've been fighting at work is Tin Whiskers, were pretty much EMP proof but Tin Whiskers have been taking out tons of our equipment. That's why my primary navigation equipment is a military Cammenga compass and map,backup is a GPS. I've seen a lot of GPS satellite problems at work and I love my GPS's, I still always carry a compass and a map.


http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/failures/index.htm

http://www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?productID=7587&TabID=1&CatID=5230

Name Launch Date First Satellite Control Processor Failure Redundant Satellite Control Processor Failure
Complete Losses
GALAXY VII [PanAmSat] 27 October 1992 13 June 1998 22 November 2000
GALAXY IV [PanAmSat] 24 June 1993 (not caused by 'tin whiskers') 19 May 1998
SOLIDARIDAD 1 [SatMex] 19 November 1993 28 April 1999 27 August 2000
GALAXY IIIR [PanAmSat] 15 December 1995 21 April 2001 15 January 2006
Partial Losses
OPTUS B1 13 August 1992 21 May 2005 Still Operational
DBS-1 [DirecTV] 17 December 1993 4 July 1998 Still Operational
PAS-4 [PanAmSat] 3 August 1995 3rd quarter 1998 Still Operational
DirecTV 3 (DirecTV) 9 June 1995 4 May 2002 Still Operational

Military Failures

1.Military Airplane: G. Davy, "Relay Failure Caused by Tin Whiskers", Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems Technical Article, October 2002
2.Patriot Missile: Anoplate WWW Site: Suspected tin whisker related problems (Fall 2000)
3.Phoenix Air to Air Missile: L. Corbid, "Constraints on the Use of Tin Plate in Miniature Electronic Circuits", Proceedings 3rd International SAMPE Electronics Conference, pp. 773-779, June 20-22, 1989.
4.F-15 Radar: B. Nordwall, "Air Force Links Radar Problems to Growth of Tin Whiskers", Aviation Week and Space Technology, June, 20, 1986, pp. 65-70
5. U.S. Missile Program: J. Richardson, and B. Lasley, "Tin Whisker Initiated Vacuum Metal Arcing in Spacecraft Electronics," Proceedings 1992 Government Microcircuit Applications Conference, Vol. XVIII, pp. 119 - 122, November 10 - 12, 1992.
6. U.S. Missile Program: K Heutel and R. Vetter, "Problem Notification: Tin Whisker growth in electronic assemblies", Feb. 19, 1988, memorandum
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Failure is not an option!
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#90481 - 04/05/07 05:55 PM Re: The definitive EMP effects thread [Re: garland]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Originally Posted By: garland
. . . Also, expect stuff which simply isn't plugged in that's in your closet to work too. There's simply no way for the emp to reach it. It doesn't go through walls (unlike radiation) unless it's on a carrier like a wire.. . .
I agree with a lot of your post, but what makes you think that an EMP isn't radiation? Turn on a small battery powered radio and put it in your closet. If the radio stops getting a signal in the closet then the closet is effectively a faraday cage. I doubt that your radio signal strength will drop even 1 dB.

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#90483 - 04/05/07 06:56 PM Re: The definitive EMP effects thread [Re: Russ]
garland Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 170
Loc: harrisburg, pa
Ah shoot, forgot to delete that part. Yeah I had a part about a garage blocking signals but in double checking myself found that really wood/plastic offers almost no protection. I then deleted it and said you know what, I should just stick with the facts and not my presumptions. But I forgot to remove the part you found. Good catch smile

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#90484 - 04/05/07 07:17 PM Re: The definitive EMP effects thread [Re: garland]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Cool. EMP is basically a broadband radio wave in a very short high amplitude pulse. Most of the energy is below 30 kHz making it HF, but the frequency extends into VHF IIRC. Coupling this to electronics is much easier with a long wire antenna such as your home's wiring, but there are a lot of unknowns. Unplugging some systems may be enough isolation, but with today's soft switches, simply turning an item off would probably be inadequate.
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#90485 - 04/05/07 07:30 PM Re: The definitive EMP effects thread [Re: Russ]
garland Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 170
Loc: harrisburg, pa
Yeah the unknowns are what make this tough. Alot of it depends on how many kv/m are dropped, a/m, what height it's exploded at, etc.. I just found the full report to the senate briefing, I'm going to post it. It's very interesting and should be considered to have the most up to date information. I guess in the end worst case scenario you end up with something similiar to lights out. Best case is more like cars survive, work, and minor electronics survive as well.

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#90491 - 04/05/07 08:19 PM Re: The definitive EMP effects thread [Re: garland]
ironraven Offline
Cranky Geek
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 4642
Loc: Vermont
I wouldn't bet on small electronics surviving. You talk about it like it is on one wavelength, which it isn't. The EMF leaked from a bad fan motor is a lot lower than a destruct EMP's, and that can damage ICs.

And actually, a strong enough EMP can kill you. Now, realistically, being in a field that strong means you've probably been evaporated by the fireball, but if you pump energy into a conductor, be it metal which makes up the important parts of electronic equipment or the water that makes up the important parts of your neural equipment, you will make a charge which can interfere or overload the system. Theoretically, you could overload a mammal's CNS with a large enough pulse, even if all you do is interfere with the heartbeat. The the key question is is it possible to make an EM pulse that impressive without a physical blast or more energetic radiation, though.
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#90494 - 04/05/07 09:12 PM Re: The definitive EMP effects thread [Re: ironraven]
garland Offline
Member

Registered: 12/22/06
Posts: 170
Loc: harrisburg, pa
And herein lies the problems. While it makes sense to me that all small electronics, cars, etc would die... and that people could be fried by this giant EMP ... the experts have a slightly different story to tell. So I tend to agree with them. In the case of the people dying from an EMP, they say no, so I say no. In the case of vehicles, they say overall they're pretty ok against EMP, so I am repeating that information.

As to why? I don't know. Personally I think that people should be succeptible to EMP. But everywhere I've read says that it's not a danger. Of course as you mentioned to be hit by it, you're going to suffer all the other nasty effects. EMP's are effective on a SREMP out to the 2psi overpressure range. That's a looooong distance.

_________________________
Owner, Messina's Front Line Survival Gear - visit our website at www.flsgear.com!
Blog: flsgear.wordpress.com
Twitter: twitter.com/flsgear
Facebook: http://on.fb.me/foPFgx

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