OK Folks...an exercise...

I like Nalgene bottle kits. Perhaps it is because the water container issue is solved immediately. Several pre-packaged kits are now on the market.

As you might imagine, most of the available bottle kits seem lacking. For instance...a survival light is not a cyalume stick. Sure, they're useful. But I'd rather have a Photon Freedom...or even a Fauxton instead!

Container...in order to use the container for liquid, you must remove the contents and find a way to carry them. Small nylon lunch bags don't take up much space...even a ziploc.

So...let's play... how would you stock YOUR Nalgene bottle kit. You have a liter/quart of space to play with. Obviously anything in a PSK would fit. But here you have more space...

My first choice would be just to fill the bottle with water,put a metal cup over it and carry a PSK seperately. Would a kit with the bulk of a 1l. nalgene still be a PSK?? hmmm...

Anyway, this is what I'dd put in there:

-Metal cup over the nalgene
-about 2m. of duct-tape wrapped on the bottle
-knife,SAK of something alike
-3m. paracord
-photon II microlight
-10 water-purifying tabs
-10 wind/waterproof matches
-chap-stick
-energy bar
-AMK heatsheet
-AMK Pocket Survival Pak or similair contents
-mesh drawstring-bag for putting in the contents when using the nalgene

As you can see, no FAK-supplies. Maybe a bandanna would fit to?

This is a link I found when googling: http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme%20gear/tad_gear_bug_out_bottle.htm

I would fill mine with water.
Not a fan of the bottle PSK.

Thanks, but I think folks may be getting a little hung up on the PSK-side and maybe see this as an either/or situation. We discuss everything from PSKs, FAKs, BOBs, Trunk Kits, Home kits, 72 hr, etc. Basically these can be any configuration you wish. I hope people did not take the above to mean replacing a pocket PSK with a one-quart bottle system. As a container, I think the 1 liter bottle is a great thing. I carry mine daily...in an OR parka. In fact, I even carry a few full to work daily. If it came right down to it, a condom, breast milk bag, etc are great in a pinch, but to be honest, I'm always carrying a 1 liter Nalgene and I'd be using it. They're extremely durable...I still have some in rotation after 15 or so years. Additionally, my cube at work could harbor just such a kit and not want for space. Again, stuff in a PSK like fishing gear I wouldn't be using at work, or even to get home in an emergency. I work a good distance from my home...sometimes a great distance. I have multiple layers (and redundancies) of EDC for home and away. These can be effective modules. Additionally, I carry extra. In an emergency I have given out items. I got a good deal on these lexan bottles a while back and use them for storage anyway. I now wish I'd bought more. I hate to sound like a cheerleader, but my packouts are incomplete w/o 1 liter lexan nalgenes. Packing the bottles just allows me an even more efficient use of space.

BTW, REI used to make a bottle jacket like the one they now have at:

http://www.rei.com/product/402189

that had a drawstring enclosure rather than elastic. Does anyone still see the drawstring type out there anywhere?

I use a Nalgene for a container in my car kits. Each car has a bag with blankets, tools, etc. The bag has limited pockets and it annoyed me that little stuff was migrating all over. I settled on organizing in a Nalgene because of possible dual use...

In the Nalgene, I have

- Inova X1
- 2 AA Batteries
- Paracord (~12') (wrapped around bottle)
- Duct tape (inside bottle)
- Bandana
- Mini-Bic
- Cheapy Match Case w/tinder
- Cheapy Match Case w/Strike anywheres
- Mora (Clipper I think, strike that, it is #2)
- Sometype of AMK survival blanket

It is a tight fit... I was planning to squeeze in water purfication tablets at some point.

I have Nalgene bottles in the trunk and in my earthquake kit at home.
If I am in the wilderness I will have some sort of dedicated water container. Very likely at least one Nalgene qt bottle.

I just don't see using the bottle as a PSK container (most of the commercial kits are junk; excluding TAD Gear but that one is pricey) because as soon as you need it you have to empty the contents and start putting them in pockets.

I keep my survival gear(and all my gear) pretty simple and I find that I carry less gear than many other ETS members in general. My main survival kit was built around rock climbing. This kit needs to be simple because there is not any place to carry a bigger kit. I don't carry a Nalgene climbing because I now I usually use a Camelbak when I climb.
The PSK needs to be able to fit in a small Camelbak pocket or in my shorts pockets. This makes one very efficient at keeping the kit small. This affects my philosophy on survival kits in gerneral.

Here is what I carry climbing.
A PSK in a Aloksak containing
Photon Freedom
6 MP1 tabs
4 Quick Tinder
Sparklite
6 REI storm matches and striker wrapped in plastic wrap.
Fox40 micro
Rescue Flash Mirror
1 gallon freezer bag
Suunto Gem compass
1 Ben's 30% deet wipes
1 single use sunscreen
1 extra battery for BD Ion headlamp (headlamp in Camelbak)
1 Emergen-C
2 4X4 non stick dressing
2 knuckle bandages

In my Camelbak is
BD Ion Headlamp
AMK HS Bivy
Ultralight Balaclava
Bandana

On my Harness is
Plenty of cordage (rope, webbing etc.)
Spyderco Ladybug partially serrated
A roll of medical tape (for taping hands and fingers as well as 1st aid)

In my pockets
BM Minigrip (maybe a Ritter)
Bic mini

I like the idea of a Nalgene kit for the car, along with a blanket, as a minimal kit.

The little orange bag that the Heatsheet comes in to carry the smaller gear later on.
A Ritter PSP and an AMK Pocket Medic, both removed from thier respective pouches, less the mirror, aluminum foil, frensel lense and the duct tape (they just don't fit).
A bottle of PA
A metal cup under the bottom of the bottle
Photon or similar
Vic Huntsman SAK
hotspark or similiar
2x 3x3 gauze pads (or 4x4s if I can make them fit)
mini bic with a zip tie under the plunger
duct tape wrapped around the bottle (replaces what is lost from the PSK)
a few more tinder quiks
a spool of waxed dental floss
6 or so zipties
two or three 20s, and some quarters
A minibinier with a couple of spare split rings, clipped to the cover strap, to attach the hot spark, Photon and whistle to the SAK after the kit gets opened, and to anchor it in the car to an unused seatbelt, back of the passenger headrest or similiar point
A spare watch cap pulled over the whole thing

If I'm allowed a pouch I'd also want the metal top of a carefully opened coffee can (lid for the cup), the mirror, foil and frensel lens along the bottom. Maybe a coil of line (probably Triptease or of similiar weight).

Alternatively, I might try the rectangular Nalgene. Easier to pack the flat, wide items if it is in a pouch, but with the aluminum foil returned as I've never found a tin that will fit the bottom of this thing properly. If I did that, I would really want a couple of 4x4s in a freezer bag.

the nalgene bottle kit is just to big and clunky... and for some folks that kit is the only thing they have seen in regards to wilderness survival items/kit... they my not know of other kits and container's out there that are smaller and have more usefull items in it... i'll stick to my P.S.K survival tin which has a water bag inside,not big and clunky...vince g. 11b inf...

I keep a small Altoids tin PSK in my hiking shorts pocket at all times. And a Nalgene bottle bigger kit in my daypack/backpack.

Here's what I have in that Nalgene kit:

32oz smoke colored Nalgene bottle
Fitted metal cup nestled on end of bottle
Neoprene sleeve to hold cup to bottle, has attachment loops and drawstring
Aluminum foil, heavy duty
Aquarium airline tubing (for water seeps)
Bandaids, medium
BIC butane lighter
Can opener, P38
Candle, large (5/8" x 5")
Candles, trick birthday (can't blow 'm out type)
CMG Infinity LED light, red, 3rd generation (?), (but not the Ultra)
Compass, Silva inexpensive baseplate model
Cotton balls with vasoline, inside sealed plastic drinking straws
Dental floss, on sewing machine bobbin
Duct tape
Emergency info card (address, meds, allergies, relatives, etc.)
Firesteel, large, Swedish Army model
Hacksaw blade, 3", for use with firesteel
Fish hooks, sinkers, swivels, fishing line
Fresnal lens, in protective sleeve
Kite line, braided, 50# test, on sewing bobbin
Knife, 3-1/2" Coldsteel folder
Knife, 1-1/2" folder
Matches, wooden kitchen, in waterproof case
Needle, heavy duty, with thread
Waterproof paper
Paracord (550), bright orange, 25 feet
Pencil
Pencil sharpener (to shave twigs into tinder)
Ranger bands (made from bike innertube), qty 10
Safety pins, large
Starflash signal mirror, 2"x3", in protective sleeve
Sugar candy, 4 pieces
Water purification straw (good for 20 gallons)
Water purification tablets, iodine, unopened bottle
Whistle, Fox40
Wire saw, heavy duty
Wire, solid, 24 gauge, on sewing bobbin

I think you are missing the point of the exercise, Vince. This is a lot more than a PSK.

Realistically, when you look in your tin, how complete is it? Do you have a cup that you can count on? Or a water container that can take being sat on accidentally? Do you have more than a few days of water tabs? Do you have a flashlight, or a real knife, to replace the ones that just fell out of your pockets into at least 20 feet of water at night? If it is like mine, you don't, not unless it is cased in a mess tin or something similiar, in which case it is as bulky as the Nalgene kit.

A water bottle with a mouth big enough to let gear pass is inheriantly waterproof, so your gear stays dry- toss in a small clay desiccant packet and it will absorb whatever moisture is in there. It's also in one place, and it's really hard to squash the stuff in it- I've seen Nalgenes that looked scuzzed enough to support the claim the were driven over. And it is big enough that if you have to find it in the dark, in the rain, in 30 seconds or less, so yes, a Nalgene based kit is bulkier than the PSK. But it isn't a PSK, but a larger size of survival kit.

As someone who uses tinned kits as well, I can't say that they will take the same degree of abuse, nor will they float, nor would I trust tin and electricians tape to keep the water out for more than 20 minutes. And in fact and truth, any truely pocket sized kit in anything other than a Pelican mini-case or an Otter-box that claims to be was well protected against the elements as one in a Nalgene. That doesn't mean that I will be retiring my tinned PSK, but for my parents or my sister-in-law, I'm sorely tempted to build just the kit I describe for each of them.

Never compare a pocket knife to a hunting knife, nor a hunting knife to a sword or axe. It is never fair to anyone. For the average person, what's better? A bigger, more capable kit that they can find in their car and can forget about for a few years, or a pocket kit that has been skeletonized to the bare bones and is lost in the trunk?

understood ironraven..the pocket survival tin was never intended (for me at least ) to be a stand alone survival kit..but as a last ditich kit if i lose everything else, as it has the bare bones items to survive...i base my survival kits on the british S.A.S theme of a survival tin,clasp knife, compass in your pocket on your body...the survival pouch with more items of kit on a web belt with water bottle and sheath knife hanging on the belt..lastly i have my ruck/patrol pack with still more items.... i try not to have all my eggs in the same basket but spread around in my kit....vince g. 11b inf....

Nalgene bottle kits are great as backup/standby kits in your office drawer, glove compartment, as an additional kit (within your BOB) to share with someone special in special circumstances.

One thing I haver to consider though. If you keep it in your glove compartment for long time and those hard objects ( knife, spoon ..etc ) keep etching the plastic , wont that cause a health hazard when you fill it with water and drink "plastic beverage" ?? I guess a good wash is necessary before you fill it.

That would imply things are able to move around in there. I don't know about others, but I thought the whole idea of a PSK (or other survival pack) was to cram the thing so dang full that it distorts and stretches around the edges! ;-) Nothing moves around in there ... not in MINE anyways!

I doubt there'd be any significant health consequences to a few scratches anyway. At least none I'd worry about during a survival situation.

No worse than chewing on a pen. I won't tell you how many I "eat" in a month.

In that case, I apologize. I thought you were dismissing the concept.

Although, in my usual model, I've got a pair of BDU-patterned sweatpants on under utitlies, with my PSK and PMK in the thigh pockets of my sweats, or in a pouch on my belt under my vest and pack.

I started with a Nalgene bottle kit (store bought) , and added too it. It was ok, but when hunting season started I quickley realized the weight & bulk was too much.
I do like the idea of using the Nalgene with a car kit. I am currently doing nothing with mine, so I may just re-stock it and put it in the trunk.
Good thread!

This is how I carry a nalgene water bottle and suvival kit.

Take care,
Bryan

You never did tell us where you got the pack, last time you showed this kit. It still looks very cool. I'm thinking custom but from where?

For years I've kept most little things in my nalgene kit in a baggie. Nowadays it's migrated to an aloksak bag. I seem to access it all the time, for gear repair, minor first aid, etc. If I need to use it to hold water, I have everything already in a waterproof bag to throw in a pocket.

(Well, mostly waterproof. Over the last couple years that aloksak isn't as proofed with the little things making tiny holes in it. Still good enough to through in a jacket pocket or another dry container.)

I carry that nalgene kit nearly everywhere. It's pretty beat but still in plenty good shape. I like those lexan bottles as general containers. Besides the usual duct tape wrap, I also have a jug sling tied near the neck, for another length of paracord but also a darn convenient lash point.

As an aside, the one time I REALLY could have used that kit, it was strapped in my kayak floating down a river. Shortly after I found this forum, and now carry a pocket kit in the pfd all the time, in addition to the nalgene in the boat.

Jason

Jason,
That is one of the problem with kits that don't stay on the person. As you mentioned when your bottle PSK was strapped to your boat; if you had lost your boat you were left with what was in your pockets and on your person.
That is my main problem with the whole bottle PSK thing. You have to at least strap it to your belt or something and you may be tempted to remove it.

In some ways I have begun to believe that some PSK's are too large and have too many things in them making them prohibitive to carry. Even the small pocket sized kits can be too big in some cases.
One example is trail running. I run in the local East Bay parks; they are quite wild for being in the Bay Area but most of the time I am on trails that I am familiar with are easily followed. None the less I still like to have some emergancy gear but I can't put a PSK even one as small as Doug's PSP in my pockets and I don't want to carry a pack. So I clip a Mini-Grip in my waistband and I put a Photon, mini Bic and whistle in the tiny pocket on my shirt or shorts. In cool weather I carry a very light windshell but in summer no jacket. This is about all I could stand to carry when only going out for an hour run. Point being that sometimes all you really need are some basics and knowledge because to carry more might not be appropriate. In a bad situation I might wish I had more gear but in the case of an hour trail run how much more can you carry before it inhibits your running?

In that case you've made a conscious and educated choice to less equipped to balance other parameters. I guess my question is have you looked for an alternative carrier that are compatible to your activity and environment?

I ask because to compare something in the Bay Area on dry land to something like canoing in a more remote area is like comparing oranges to broccoli- not even the same shape. Hiking in most places is kinda like your runs, and thus analogous to cauliflour; a small kayak or day sailer in the Bay is kinda like canoing, so kinda like an apple.

And being in the Bay Area, how close are you to your car when you are running? Or do you not bother with a car kit because it doesn't fit in the pockets of your running shorts? Becuase it does sound like you are dismissing water bottle based kits because they don't fit a very specific and narrow role. They are a bit more general purpose than what you are describing, and more capable. They don't fit in every non-emergency scenario, no one kit does.

Yes, while running near my home I am usually only 3-5 miles from my car. So yes I make a descision to go with less because it is pretty pedestrian compared to other outings.

I have looked into other carry options and so far I find they move around too much unless they are small and have little room for extra gear. I have been looking at some fanny packs that hold either bottles or bladders but the ones that stay put while runnung have almost no extra capacity; mostly a small zippered pouch to hold keys and a pack of sports gel.

I agree that you need to adjust you gear to the endeavor but sometimes it is still limited by space and weight. If I am on an alpine style rock climb I may have a 10 mile approach each way so therefore I am far from my car but I still have to go quite light or it inhibits climbing; just what I can stuff in my Camelbak (Mule I think)so I am quite limited.

But all in all outside is outside and exposure can kill you on land and sea so the survival basics remain the pretty much the same. You still have to address the basic needs to stay warm, hydrated and getting rescued. In many cases (TWAWKI) any gear that addresses anything beyond this is extraneous. That does not mean it is worth having just that it is not necessary. The fishing part of some kits is an example.

In any situation you will need water; so having a water conatiner filled with anything other than water means you need to carry a second container with the water or you are not carrying any water at all . If you are in the wilderness you must have water so the obvious choice is to take water with you in a container and then refill in the field if need be. I rarely carry two Nalgene bottles at one time so for me the bottle kit has little value. My bottle is already filled with water.

I agree that the Nalgene bottles are great containers and have on occasion used them to keep somethng dry but normally I use them to contain liquids. I also agree that keeping a bottle based kit in a place like your trunk makes sense but as a kit you intend to carry it does not make sense to me.

As far as a car kit my car is very equpped but it does no good if I am not at my car.

I made a "half size" PSK out of the tin that Altoids gum comes in. A few matches, about a foot of mason line, a little over a foot of duct tape, an Inova LED (Photon size). If you haven't seen the tim, it's probably 1/3 the size of a regular Altoid tin. You could probably throw a razor blade in as well.

Yea I have played around with the mini PSK too.

Who says you only get to have one???!!!

I have four myself. My smallest/lightest is a keyring model. That's in my pocket always for everyday urban movement (work, shopping, whatever). Except when I decide to carry my larger urban kit, which has more stuff carried in a micro-sized camera pouch. That's fine in a jean or jacket pocket, but slightly too bulky for all day comfort.

Then for outdoors I have my Altoids tin kit that is always in my pocket when I am hiking. For longer hikes, or remote hikes, or solo hikes, or when I'm carrying my larger daypack I also carry my Nalgene kit in the pack. Along with extra clothing, food, emergency bivy, etc. that won't fit into the Nalgene bottle (this extra gear is carried seperately in my pack).

Same deal with knives. 90% of the time I have a Spyderco Native clipped into my pocket. But for church and other more formal occassions I opt for a smaller and more discrete knife inside my pocket. For a run inside the airport, no knife. For sporting events during "orange alert" conditions where they may wand you down, a small CRTK "PECK" that generally isn't picked up. And if it is, many don't recognize it as a knife or think it's so cute that they don't bother with it.

I think that a nalgene bottle is too large to be a survival kit. You will need to carry it in a backpack, and most likely will already have a nalgene bottle for water. I could see a nalgene kit as a car kit. Personally i think the extra nalgene is better used as a humidor for some stogies!

I peronally don't carry numerous kits. I have survival gear on my person. Sometimes in a PSK like Doug's PSP or something I made up. After that I dont' make up addtional kits to carry; I just add the gear I need. One exception is a FAK.

There was a time when I used to hike with the "kitchen sink". I used to backpack with huge packs full of all kinds of gear and back up gear. Then I started climbing and mountaineering in the Sierra and had to learn the fast and light approach. You just can't cover enough ground carrying a lot of weight.
Much our or "survival gear" is emergency stuff that we don't use regularly. In many cases I am willing to go without much of it.
As long as I can get warm, get shelter from the elements, get water and signal I am happy. Maybe it comes from the climbing ethos but gear does not always replace skill and knowledge.

I have to agree with you. Rather then carrying a PSK, I put a lighter in one pocket, a knife in another, and carry a whistle and a handkercheif. Dedicated survival kits, with the exception of my car kit, don't really make much sense to me. For hikes I carry more gear, but I'm more likely to use it in the normal course of as I am to need it in an emergency. For example, I carry a brew kit with a steel cup that fits over a Nalgene bottle and a stove so I can make a quick cup of hot chocolate. In an emergency that could be critical for getting or staying warm, but mostly I just like to be able have hot chocolate if I stop for a break. I do carry dedicated emergency gear (like the whistle), but I don't carry survival kits. I find it better to distribute things around my person and pack.

There is potential for nalgene kits.

First read this article:
http://www.alpharubicon.com/prepinfo/disposablecachelrrp.htm

Now, how about someone who frequently backpacks to some favorite spots and wants to be prepared? I guess a few Nalgene bottles filled with extra (seldom used) survival items can be cached along the way and around those favorite camping/fishing/hunting spots and they can make a valuable asset in case something happens like losing your gear or whatever.

Its a great idea....BUT...the bottle should be full of water.

Perhaps a buttpack with a water bottle holder would be a better set-up?

teacher

( reminds me me of an exercise..see my other post today)

Teacher, you've missed the point. I explained it to others, keep reading.