Like OBG mentioned in the PSK thread, I used GI web gear when I ran around in the woods as a kid. It was excellent for the SAR stuff we did in CAP. Well, I still have it, but as a “responsible adult” I don’t use it for fear of looking like some kind of mall-ninja.

But I miss it. I really got used to being able to get at most of my gear without having to drop my pack and rummage around. Right there at the end, I picked up a “LBV” load bearing vest which solved a few shortcomings of the traditional web gear setup. However, while the ALICE three-mag pouches were just the right size, the two-mag pouches on the vest where too narrow.

I slept through the introduction of MOLLE and I’m just now catching up on all the neat stuff out there nowadays.

Now, with the widespread popularity of “coyote” tan colored gear, if worn in a green forest environment it might be mistaken for an overstuffed fishing vest - perfect. Or, I might just look like a particularly clueless play-soldier. There's always OD. Basic black makes you look like a SWAT team.

What to do? I suppose I could just join the military. Or if I ever get back into SAR, I can tell curious hikers “Why, I’m field testing search and rescue gear. Go about your business, citizen.”

Tom,

you can try civilian labs gear that can be seen at TAD gear site. You wont have a mall ninja look but a yuppie/hipster one (don't know which one is worse). Althou by reputation civilian labs stuff is really well made and smartly designed.

http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme%20gear/gear%20organizers%20main/civilian.htm

I had similar dilema as you so I got TAD fastpack and attached few Kifaru pouches all over and it works for me just fine.

A lot of people in the woods the woods today you get strange looks for people if your wearing jeans and a T-shirt. I still use some of my web gear mixed with some civilian stuff and a LBV for some things. I really don't care what people think and take great pains to stay invisible and as far away from the Yuppie areas as possible.

Yuppie/hipster is not the look I'm going for

A small MOLLE equipped pack w/ lots of pouches would solve the rummaging problem. It would be an exact compromise between a tactical vest and a normal daypack. But you still have to drop it to get anything out of it. A pack w/ hydration bladder would eliminate the canteens. Hmmm...

Well, for all the times I've said try NOT to look military, I admit that my BOB is in woodland camo under all the pouches, and my ditch kit is mounted on a chest harness. *shrugs* Wear it with khaki or grey utilities, work boots, a checked shirt and under a non military poncho and you should be fine. Particularly if you have a bright red or yellow compression bag for your sleeping bag.

If people ask, I tell them it a comfortable way to carry gear- front and back balance out. ANd when I'm just carrying the ditch kit, it gets put on backwards and worn as a lumbar pack. Never had a second glance from someone.

Re: Load bearing gear fashion advice needed

How about some British Pattern 58 webbing, this stuff is nearly indestructible and cheap to boot. Its been around for nearly 50 years. It was first introduced in 1958 before the introduction of breakable plastic closures and that nasty Velcro stuff. Its nearly half way there to becoming an antique. Should last another 50 years though.

http://www.semma4.co.uk/index.asp?function=DISPLAYPRODUCT&productid=97



Apparently the pack wasn't up to much but the rest including the poncho roll was pretty good.

Cost is around $50 including shipping from the UK.

That's pretty much the British equivalent of my beloved LC-1/LC-2/ALICE web gear.

The main shortcoming of civi web gear is that if you're not carrying nice heavy ammo in the front pouches, the canteens and buttpack in the back pull on the suspenders and cause the front to ride up. Also, with my growing beerless beer gut I have to wear the belt lower in front now and the pouches hit my legs when I squat down. The vest solves this.

So, modular of fixed? A fixed vest is probably lighter, stronger and less bulky IF you can find one that has exactly the size/shape/number of pouches you need and you never change. MOLLE looks like a neat idea, but I wonder how well it works in practice? It seems to add a ton of weight and bulk with all the webbing.

I wonder if my wife's sewing machine can handle #69 thread and 1000D Cordura...

That's brilliant! For years I've pondered the best way to wear a pack over a vest. Instead, wear the vest over the pack.

Why didn't I think of that?

I've been considering making a sort of civilian webgear out of canvas left over from a backpack I made. I was thinking pouches designed to hold quart Nalgene bottles in back, but I haven't figured out what to do with the front yet. Probably two large and two small pouches. I'd probably use a heavy web pistol belt for a base but I can make my own suspenders and all the pouches. I can even put a coating of a wax/oil waterproof on like an oil slicker. It wouldn't be as indestructable as cordura or nylon or completely waterproof, but since I don't plan on crawling through concerntina wire or low crawling through gravel I don't see it being a major issue. It might look a bit odd, but for the most part completely innoculous. More like the hunting or fishing gear discussed here. And it would be to my exact specifications.

I don't know about everyone else but I'm not a big fan of MOLLE. The problem with a lot of military web gear is that it's only really useful for its original purpose. M16 ammo pouches are notorious. Good for storing ammo but that's about it, I guess. Military load bearing vests present the same problem. The pockets are just too small for any bulkier items. Carrying too much stuff in a vest is not very comfortable either plus it can get pretty hot as it prevents the sweat from evaporating freely. Besides, walking around the woods dressed up like a Navy SEAL wannabe is a little weird to say the least.

I think the older ALICE system is actually a lot more practical for civilian users. My favorite combination is the pistol belt w/ suspenders, buttpack, large 2qt canteen, knife and maybe a small compass pouch. I carry the extra (less critical) gear in the backpack though for a shorter summer trip that might not even be necessary. The buttpack is large enough for a couple of days' supplies, I just add a poncho and I'm good to go.

That Exodus pack looks interesting but it has one major drawback. If the LBV is integrated in the shoulder straps that means pretty much all your equipment is gone the moment you take off your backpack. IMO the big benefit of the ALICE system or equivalent is that all the critical gear stays with you even if you lose the backpack by some chance.

A pistol belt w/ suspenders and the rest was the system I used for the longest time. On the belt, I carried two mag pouches in the front and one on the left side. One was a FAK, the other was everyday items like note a pad, etc. and the third had emergency/survival items. My fixed-blade knife was on the right. Two canteens, one over each hip pocket. One canteen cup. Compass pouch on one shoulder strap and an angle-head flashlight on the other. The butt pack contained a poncho, extra socks, food and anything else bulky.

The beauty of it was that you could get at anything except the butt pack on the move and without taking it off. And then, your buddy could get something from the butt pack for you. During GSAR (Ground Search & Rescue) training, we literally lived in our gear for a solid week. It didn't catch on low-hanging branches, get jammed between two close-set trees or knock over the guy standing next to you if you turn suddenly like a framed pack does.

Once I somehow ended up at a Boy Scout event where we had a certain packing list of gear to carry and we went around to different stations where we had to make a fire and boil water, tie a knot, etc. Every time we needed an item, I would have it out before everyone else's packs hit the ground. By the way, I never got the packing list, I was just carrying my normal load-out.

But as Tom_L said, ammo pouches are designed for storing ammo, not first aid kits.

I actually find MOLLE to be more adaptable, simply because the ALICE clips didn't migrate well to other sizes of belts, not to mention got too cold in winter and got too hot in summer and dug into you 365 days a year if you were putting them on a normal belt. And they won't even go around the thick cowhide I wear around my middle every day.

MOLLE and MALICE on the other hand, you just turn it into a belt loop and away you go. And if you are using a pack or vest with MOLLE webbing, it is a lot more stable becuase you interlace the carrier and pouch. With ALICE gear, when I tried vests, it just felt like the pouch was hanging there and it was always bouncing. The pouches on my MAV on the other hand are on there SOLID when you lace the webbing together properly, they feel like they aren't some modular, cobbled together thing, and they don't sway around unless I've got way too small a load in the pouch.

Now, that being said, I'm not fan of SDS- thier quality is a little sketchy. But when you start talking about the quality manufacturers (SpecOps, Tactical Tailor, TAG, Eagle, HSGI, Emdom) it beats not only the issue MOLLE but also the issue ALICE gear like a drum.