Hi guys
So I have several questions as I make a 72 hour bag, and hoping you can answer. First off, I bought a fairly large school-type backpack to store supplies in. I do have a very nice internal frame pack, but I want to keep that for backpacking; I figure I can switch suppies over if needed.

Anyway, on to the topic:

1) DR says to avoid milk-carton water containers (flimsy, tops pop off, organic material if using milk containers). I'm wondering, since they have 1 gal. containers of water with screw tops, is this advice still 'valid?' I only ask because 2 of these containers nicely fit into my bag.

2) Any suggestions on a flashlight? I've got a 3D Maglite in my truck, a Surefire in my desk, and a minimag in my backpacking supplies. Should I even bother with keeping a light in my supplies then? Or just batteries for one of these?

3) Food. I've got a few cans of stuff, but am thinking that prepacked rations are a smarter idea, weight wise. Any reason why MREs, Backpacker Pantry, or 'survival rations' are better/worse than one of the other choices? I've eaten 15 year old MREs so I know they've got a hell of a shelf life...

Thanks in advance

just off the top of my head i would say get big Nalgene
jars for water..i have a quart size one that i fill up
with "canoe country" water and bring home with me for sips
over the winter and it's never got a "off"taste..
flashlight--how about a LED headlamp..working hands free
makes a lot of things easy..puting up a tent--cooking--
sorting gear..
food..for 72 hours i would use MRE's with some freeze-dryed
camping meals tossed in to use when you have water to spare.
but 72 hours is nothing..you could eat zip top cans of beans
and fruit cocktail..i think the SOS bars are for people who
see themselfs holding up in a cave for weeks..

How many people are stocking for, and is this pack just going to be a gear store or is plan B a left foot and a right foot?

Not being familiar with the bottles in question, I can't commend on their robustness. What I would say is buy them sealed and keep them that way. They were pasturized at the factory, breaking seal = messing with that.

Surefires are good if you need a lot of light, but thier battery consumption means you might want a different light for your first choice, but by all means have this around. If you are going to use a Minimag, look at one of the LED conversions. I've found myself liking the Gerber Infinity a lot- size of a shot shell, 20+ hours of light on one AA.

As for food... I wouldn't have touched a 15 year old MRE. Hello, biowar tests. :P

MREs are good because they are ready to go, but super heavy. Dehydrates need prep time and water, but are small and light. I like a mix of the two. A lot of this stuff can be had in the grocery store.

Cans are just heavy.

Packing for myself. I've got a small duffle FAK in my car, and a small PSK in my camp equipment. Both can be carried with the backpack. One thing I realized: having grown up in CA, I'm going about this with an "earthquake" mentality. But, I'm living in the Midwest now and for at least the next 2 years. I'm sure that's an issue.

Yeah, the MREs were a bit on the ripe side. To be fair, however, only one really caused any upset stomach.

I've got about 10 batteries for the Surefire. I was thinking of a LED AA minimag, but I've heard conflicting reports on durability. Also, apparently they don't dim, they just go out. I'm thinking of just using my camping headlight in the bag, and pulling it out as needed for camping. But I'll see if I can find a Gerber. If it's cheap enough, I'll spring for it.

"1) DR says to avoid milk-carton water containers (flimsy, tops pop off, organic material if using milk containers). I'm wondering, since they have 1 gal. containers of water with screw tops, is this advice still 'valid?' I only ask because 2 of these containers nicely fit into my bag. "


I agree with DR. FWIW, I avoid using those plastic water containers for any kind of water storage, now, having proven to myself over and over that they break down and leak VERY easily, messing up everything they soak into. If I'm going to use store-bought water jugs, in the car for example, they rest in either a plastic bucket of some sort.

Our BOBs have a mix of ready to eat, dehydrated, and MRE stuff. Cans of Vienna sausages, MRE crackers, MRE entrees, cans of fruit - that sort of stuff...

1. 1 gal milk containers (even if packaged with water) should be avoided. They are not durable and will leak. I have first hand experience with this as do many people.

2. Many people on this board love flashlights, as do I. Do you EDC some sort of light? I have a flashlight in every type of kit I have (less the FAK) and would recommend the same. At the very least, extra light could not hurt if you need it or someone else does.

3. I like MREs and lifeboat rations. I have the rations in my bobs because I like the weight to bulk to calories thing and the fact that they are sopposedly non-thirst provoking.

I don't really EDC a flashlight, but I do have an Inova micro light in my backpack (I use an Altoids gum tin for a few things, in case I get the urge for a dayhike). There's a small AAA minimag in my FAK in the car, as well as a 3Dmaglight with the LED upgrade. I was wondering if it's best to get another maglight/LED. But, I'm thinking of getting a Fenix, since they sound interesting.

Sounds like the 1gal milk/water isn't a good idea. I do have 1 gallon sitting in a cupboard in the garage, but I think I'll hit the store and try to get a few 1/2 gal. water containers. Nalgene, at this point, is a bit beyond my price range (though I have 3, and don't want to treat water if I can avoid it).

Nalgene is spendy..a half gallon lab grade bottle is about
$20 but it will never break and they seal air tight..if you
do buy any for long term survival use i would avoid the
small bottles from the camping stores and get the big ones
from the lab supply houses..

For Nalgenes, hit eBay. The polycarb labware is the same stuff as the hiker's gear, just not as pretty. And you can find lots of custom one quarts that have errors in the printing dirt cheap- they might not be as spiffy, but when it's real world, who cares?

Stealth mentioned lifeboat rations. They work, but I might suggest adding a bottle of appetite suppressants to your pack if you do. They aren't filling, and when people are hungry, the can get grumpy and make decisions based on that.

Everyone has already given you the important info, I'll address a side issue: variety. I prefer to use several kinds of rations with the ratios between them depending on what I'm embarking upon.

A few MRE's, a few dehydrated, a few freeze dried, a VERY few C rations (beef stew, chicken & dumplings, etc), some D rations (chocolate bars, hard candy, etc), some prepared and unprepared foods (hard boiled eggs, baked biscuits, raw bacon, etc.), and K rations (coffee, seasonings, hot chocolate mix, tea, etc.)

I usually reserve:
The prepared stuff and K rations for breakfasts.

The MRE's or freeze dried for lunches.

C rations or dehydrated, and K rations for Suppers.

D rations are used throughout the day as you feel the need to
maintain energy levels, especially in cold weather.

So what kind of chocolate is best for melt-resistance? I've also heard that when the chocolate gets that whitish crust after a long while, it's still edible. Anyone know if that's true?

I have eaten some that was white and it didn't cause me any harm but there is absolutely no polite way to describe the vile nasty disgusting taste. I was however able to keep a staight face and talk up how good it was till my best friend had a bite too. I don't know how old it was at least 10 years (in my mre's)

Where are you finding D-rats? I've been hunting for years without luck. I've tried a bunch of recipies, but not had squat for improvements in heat stability and some were worse than a basic chocolate chip.

Heck, where are you finding K-rations?

Or are you just using common components and equating them to their nearest similar military item?

Emergency Essentials has single-serving MRE's available. You aren't forced to buy a case at a time, and there are quite a few to choose from. Average price is about $2.50 each. I have about a dozen in my car kit.

IIRC the white is the cocoa butter leaching out.

I hope that you are just using the terms C, D, and K rations as a generic term for more current foods. To the best of my knowledge, D and K rats were a WWII item, and have not been produced (under that term anyway) since then, and C rat production was halted in the 1980's. I have a case or so of C rats around, but I don't believe I would want to eat any of them today. Original D and K's might even be collectors items...

Yes, I'm using them as a reference only but I am applying those terms for the types of food that is commercially available. Yes, I am trying to stay generic and not become a source of free advertising for some corporation.

See my reply to Old Bald Guy.

Basic D rats: chocolate, hard candy, high energy/sugar types.

Basic K rats: US mil aviation dining packets, includes: plastic knife, fork, spoon, sugar, salt, pepper, drinking straw, napkin (can be used for TP), church key, etc. Many commercial varieties are available as you will receive them from caterers @ different events with some more or less of these items. Throw in 4 cigarettes, matches, and 2 pieces of Chicklets and what do you have? That's why I save the packaged sporks, packaged dining kits from take-out dinners, packs of ketchup, taco sauce, salt & pepper packs, etc as I come across extras.

It's because I am a cheap date with a tight fisted technique with money.

Bummer. You had me really excited that someone was making D-bars again.

Good. You had me scared for a minute or three...

Sneaky man. Got me all excited; it's just the entree portion! Bummer, but good at the same time. Honestly, for a short term, do I really need chiclets?

"It's because I am a cheap date with a tight fisted technique with money."

I should introduce you to my sister, I'm sure it would be a match made in heaven. When she was five, she was said to "hold onto a nickel until the buffalo screamed for mercy". Since then, she's gotten really tight.

I think I'm her heir, if I can outlive her.

Sue

"...if I can outlive her..."

You could give her some chain mail jammies, then send her into the deep water swamp with el diablo

Need to go there for trioxane fuel maybe fri or sat.

Lee

On the 3D maglite front, there is a new LED insert, the TerraLUX MiniStar5 SSC P4 TLE-6E, available at batteryjunction.com (http://www.batteryjunction.com/tle-6k2.html). You can see comparison beams here:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=158938

While it's a bit pricey ($26.95) compared to a stock mag, if you use the 3D frequently (as do I) the battery use alone in a years time will save you the amount you pay on the bulb...plus you get more light and for longer periods of time. I'm happy with my units.

...now I await a similar effort for minimags!

BTW, for small lights, the first Crees have hit the shores...you'll see many more very soon.