I don't think I'd say that 'most' people can do rim to river and back on the South Kaibab in one day. It's 14 miles, almost 5000 feet of elevation loss and gain, and the only water sources are at the top and bottom. Doing the round trip in one day is a pretty punishing hike.

It depends on where you are hiking when you run into someone unprepared. I was in Rocky Mountain National Park last summer and ran into an obviously out-of-shape lady who was hiking along with a small bottle of Evian water, a bag of Cheetos, in her Crocs plastic sandals. I knew those Crocs would keep her for getting very far, so I didn't any anything. It was near the start of the trail and those areas are usually quite busy in RMNP. I always take a whistle along when hiking. Usually it's intended to signal for help, but on some of the lower RMNP trails it's to direct traffic so you don't get trampled. So I figured she'd be fine.

Unless I am responsible for them (and I am not responsible to or for everyone I meet on the trail, even if they are ignorant and I happen to know the answer) or they are someone I am familiar with, I do not provide unsolicited information. No matter how I try and deliver it, they've most often seemed to take offense to my sharing, so I don't bother anymore. It's kinda like trying to warn people to slow down before they get to the speed trap.

From an ethical and moral perspective, none of us as regular civilians are compelled to render aid and assistance, except in the case of actual duress where someone is unquestionably a victim and may not be able to request aid, as in performing CPR if you are so qualified to do it.

This is not to say I wouldn't invite a query, such as asking someone how they are doing, but it would have to be fairly evident that they are struggling to begin with, and are refraining from asking for assistance out of pride or fear of being put down or ridiculed. Usually that is a difficult call to make, and I would tend to err on the conservative side of that choice.

I am hard pressed to think of a situation that people cannot avail themselves of the requisite information beforehand in order to gain the proper perspective about a given undertaking. Sometimes it is okay to boldly go, but anyone worth his salt ought to be able to discern when it is time for further education, and take it upon themselves to gain the necessary skills and knowledge to excersize due diligence. Those who stubbornly refuse to pretty much deserve what they get should things go wonky. As the judge says, ignorance is no excuse.

I have attempted to warn ill prepared people of the possible dangers faced, and it is very seldom that recieved well. Once while returning from hunting above tree line (left because of the huge storm coming down the vally) I told some hikers of the impending storm and was told I need to mind my own business. The next day I heard a hiker was struck by lightning during that storm, always wondered if it was one of the ones I tried to warn

I still try to warn people but there is only so much we can do to keep mother nature from doing her job trying to weed the weak (or in this case the weak minded) from the gene pool.

I have a small open area around my home that I hike quite regularly, nothing real hard or real long, but it's outside and out of the house and I enjoy it. When I hike I use a Mountian Smith Day pack, quite a large pack for the area, I have been questioned severial times as to why a person my age (late 60's ) would carry such a large pack, and all that water when a river is running at the bottom and along most of the trail.

My first responce is that I didn't grow this old by being stupid. If i trip and hurt myself I want to take care of the problem. If I can't and have to stay where I am I will have water and protection from the elements untill the Park Rangers make there rounds after closing and finding my truck in the parking lot and the map I left there that will tell them where to look if I don't return.

At this point I have either lost them, or they want more information as to what I am carrying, At which point I have made some new hiking buddys.


Just give them the opportunity to learn and make up there own minds, most will see the light, but with some the light is out.

I figure that it's only fair to warn them, since they might appreciate the warning. I don't do it in a condescending way, or as if I know everything. I just lay it out in a few words and let them make their own decision.

The time in OR when I was hiking out from a campground, my dog suddenly kept stepping in front of me and pressing against my shins, while looking intently ahead and off the trail. I took her advice and we turned back, both of us watching our back trail. Shortly after we headed back, we met a young couple and I warned them that my dog was extremely uneasy, and that I suspected a bear or cougar, although I hadn't seen anything. I could see them standing in the trail, talking, then they started to follow me down.

"From an ethical and moral perspective, none of us as regular civilians are compelled to render aid and assistance..."

Advice and assistance can only come from government employees??? How amusing. And how sad. Why draw a line between who you will help and not help? Wouldn't it be easier to just not help all the time? One decision fits all.

Sue

If I know of a physical hazard ahead I will warn everyone I see ("A rock slide blocked the trail. Sweetwater Spring is dry, next water is a jillion miles," etc). If I think that someone is badly underequipped I would try the BS line of warning ("You are a lot tougher than I am, heading out into the Mojave Desert in Aug with only one can of beer and no water"). Just starting off with "dude, you don't have enough gear" will usually get your glared at, or worse...

depends on this..depends on that...do they really need it
or are you just showing off??..life saver or handy hint??
wrong place or time??---i have been at the other end of that
question..paddeling solo i had to pass a camp very close because
of the wind..the guy in it was near enought to talk to as i
passed and he wanted to give me advice on where to find nice
camping spots farther up the lake..i told him no thanks i knew
where i was going and he got pissed off and walked back to his
tent..if you give unsolicited advice you better have thick skin..or really--really know what your talking about..i.e.--no
water next 20 miles...have a nice day pilgrim---

I'll warn somebody even if I know I'm gonna get a smart alec response or looked at like I had horns and a tail. I prefer to have a clear consious if something happens I can tell myself at least I warned them.

That is actually what I have heard the rangers tell people who ask that question. A few years ago on one of my rim-rim-rim escapades we encountered a small group of non-English speaking tourists with little to no gear at the Indian Garden. We couldn't communicate with them, but they had no water and no lights (it was just after sundown).

I always try to let people know (usually visitors to here in hell) that they need to have water with them even on a "short" hike in the AZ summer. Have had a few people get pissy and I simply explain that when they inevitably call 911 that a bunch of firefighters will be out here hiking in to carry you out. Heck, I was even told by one jerk word to the effect if ?that is you job, if you don?t like get another one?

Most people appreciate the advice; others are just are bound and determine to kill themselves and their families despite everyone?s best efforts and intentions. Like Forest?s mama used to say ?Stupid is as Stupid does?