this article: http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1685381.ece

raises a interesting question. When you encounter ill equipped people. Should you warn them about the dangers and how much effect would such a warning have?

Lets face it, most of use have done stupid things and lived. And messing with peoples plans are not always retuned with a positive way.

...I once came across a hiker in the alps wearing shorts and a tee shirt -- and it had just snowed a few days before.

I've warned people about upcoming conditions on my way down from a summit. It never stopped anyone immediately, but even if you put a seed of doubt into people's minds, that's a good thing.

I have on several occaisions met some hikers who are totally clueless and took the opportunity to give them some advice.

One time I was im the middle of an 11 mile day hike that is a loop and I met these people who had not jackets, flashlights or water. They asked me about directions and I told them that if they were planning on continuing in their current direction they would be out past dark and they would be in risk of getting stuck out. They thanked me and took my advice to turned back the way they had come.

But there has been other times when the advice is unwelcome.

I met a father and son at 13,000 feet on the Mt Whitney trail. The boy was showing serious signs of altitude sickness so I told the dad he needed to turn around and head down to a lower elevation. He did not listen to me until 2 other hikers insisted the same thing. He was putting his child in danger but wanted to summit Mt Whitney.

All the time. I also frequently tell friends things like "there goes a dead man."

I've warned them. That's all I am ethically obligated to do.

Morally I believe we have no choice. Plus think back to your younger days when you have been given good advice - whether you listened or not. :-)

One area where I do keep my mouth shut is the area of stocking up on food. Everyone you try to warn will laugh at you now, but will all be lined up at your front door when they run out. When the greater good for your offspring is to horde food then that is what you have to do.

However, if I see someone who I think maybe hiking to their death then I would have no choice but to stick my nose into their business.

Last November, I was doing some hiking in the Grand Canyon. When I was coming up the South Kaibab trail,twenty minutes from the rim, I met a woman with two elementray school aged kids. Had no backpacks, fanny packs, or water visible. The mother stopped and asked me, "How long does it take to get to the bottom?" Somewhat taken aback, I thought for a moment and replied, "Getting to the river and back takes two days."* The mother seemed somewhat surprised at this, but didn't say anything. I continued on my way up the trail, and a few switchbacks up, I saw she and her kids had turned around and were following me up.

*Yes, I know some people do rim to river and back in one day, but someone who isn't carrying any gear and has to ask how long it takes to get to the river isn't one of them!

There are ranges of 'ill-equipped' and ranges of danger. I think also the attitude of the person doing the warning has an effect.

I think that pointing out some potential problems for consideration is helpful, but I'm not a cop, I don't wear a badge and carry a gun, and I can't arrest people for being either inexperienced or stupid. I see no reason to insult someone who is inexperienced, as I see done frequently by self-called experts.

As you say, we've all done stupid things and lived, so my expectation is that most people will live after making mistakes. But offending the inexperienced with a superior, insulting manner makes warnings difficult to take.

When I offer advice, I'm always prepared to have it rejected without being offended. It's not my life and limb at risk, and I'm happy to let others make their own mistakes. That's how I learned.

Of course, I'm generally not on the summit of some god-forsaken mountain nor on the rim of some bottomless chasm, so I'm back to the range of danger. Let'em screw up, I say. That's how they get to be the ones to offer advice.

nice! they probably wouldn't have died, but those kids would have been whining the whole way back up the trail

I often warn fellow hikers (people I do not know) of hazardous conditions. However, I feel that once the situation has been made clear to someone, it is up to them to decide to turn back. On the other hand, while climbing mountains with my troop, I have often sent ill-prepared Scouts down the mountain.

I don't think I'd say that 'most' people can do rim to river and back on the South Kaibab in one day. It's 14 miles, almost 5000 feet of elevation loss and gain, and the only water sources are at the top and bottom. Doing the round trip in one day is a pretty punishing hike.

It depends on where you are hiking when you run into someone unprepared. I was in Rocky Mountain National Park last summer and ran into an obviously out-of-shape lady who was hiking along with a small bottle of Evian water, a bag of Cheetos, in her Crocs plastic sandals. I knew those Crocs would keep her for getting very far, so I didn't any anything. It was near the start of the trail and those areas are usually quite busy in RMNP. I always take a whistle along when hiking. Usually it's intended to signal for help, but on some of the lower RMNP trails it's to direct traffic so you don't get trampled. So I figured she'd be fine.

Unless I am responsible for them (and I am not responsible to or for everyone I meet on the trail, even if they are ignorant and I happen to know the answer) or they are someone I am familiar with, I do not provide unsolicited information. No matter how I try and deliver it, they've most often seemed to take offense to my sharing, so I don't bother anymore. It's kinda like trying to warn people to slow down before they get to the speed trap.

From an ethical and moral perspective, none of us as regular civilians are compelled to render aid and assistance, except in the case of actual duress where someone is unquestionably a victim and may not be able to request aid, as in performing CPR if you are so qualified to do it.

This is not to say I wouldn't invite a query, such as asking someone how they are doing, but it would have to be fairly evident that they are struggling to begin with, and are refraining from asking for assistance out of pride or fear of being put down or ridiculed. Usually that is a difficult call to make, and I would tend to err on the conservative side of that choice.

I am hard pressed to think of a situation that people cannot avail themselves of the requisite information beforehand in order to gain the proper perspective about a given undertaking. Sometimes it is okay to boldly go, but anyone worth his salt ought to be able to discern when it is time for further education, and take it upon themselves to gain the necessary skills and knowledge to excersize due diligence. Those who stubbornly refuse to pretty much deserve what they get should things go wonky. As the judge says, ignorance is no excuse.

I have attempted to warn ill prepared people of the possible dangers faced, and it is very seldom that recieved well. Once while returning from hunting above tree line (left because of the huge storm coming down the vally) I told some hikers of the impending storm and was told I need to mind my own business. The next day I heard a hiker was struck by lightning during that storm, always wondered if it was one of the ones I tried to warn

I still try to warn people but there is only so much we can do to keep mother nature from doing her job trying to weed the weak (or in this case the weak minded) from the gene pool.

I have a small open area around my home that I hike quite regularly, nothing real hard or real long, but it's outside and out of the house and I enjoy it. When I hike I use a Mountian Smith Day pack, quite a large pack for the area, I have been questioned severial times as to why a person my age (late 60's ) would carry such a large pack, and all that water when a river is running at the bottom and along most of the trail.

My first responce is that I didn't grow this old by being stupid. If i trip and hurt myself I want to take care of the problem. If I can't and have to stay where I am I will have water and protection from the elements untill the Park Rangers make there rounds after closing and finding my truck in the parking lot and the map I left there that will tell them where to look if I don't return.

At this point I have either lost them, or they want more information as to what I am carrying, At which point I have made some new hiking buddys.


Just give them the opportunity to learn and make up there own minds, most will see the light, but with some the light is out.

I figure that it's only fair to warn them, since they might appreciate the warning. I don't do it in a condescending way, or as if I know everything. I just lay it out in a few words and let them make their own decision.

The time in OR when I was hiking out from a campground, my dog suddenly kept stepping in front of me and pressing against my shins, while looking intently ahead and off the trail. I took her advice and we turned back, both of us watching our back trail. Shortly after we headed back, we met a young couple and I warned them that my dog was extremely uneasy, and that I suspected a bear or cougar, although I hadn't seen anything. I could see them standing in the trail, talking, then they started to follow me down.

"From an ethical and moral perspective, none of us as regular civilians are compelled to render aid and assistance..."

Advice and assistance can only come from government employees??? How amusing. And how sad. Why draw a line between who you will help and not help? Wouldn't it be easier to just not help all the time? One decision fits all.

Sue

If I know of a physical hazard ahead I will warn everyone I see ("A rock slide blocked the trail. Sweetwater Spring is dry, next water is a jillion miles," etc). If I think that someone is badly underequipped I would try the BS line of warning ("You are a lot tougher than I am, heading out into the Mojave Desert in Aug with only one can of beer and no water"). Just starting off with "dude, you don't have enough gear" will usually get your glared at, or worse...

depends on this..depends on that...do they really need it
or are you just showing off??..life saver or handy hint??
wrong place or time??---i have been at the other end of that
question..paddeling solo i had to pass a camp very close because
of the wind..the guy in it was near enought to talk to as i
passed and he wanted to give me advice on where to find nice
camping spots farther up the lake..i told him no thanks i knew
where i was going and he got pissed off and walked back to his
tent..if you give unsolicited advice you better have thick skin..or really--really know what your talking about..i.e.--no
water next 20 miles...have a nice day pilgrim---

I'll warn somebody even if I know I'm gonna get a smart alec response or looked at like I had horns and a tail. I prefer to have a clear consious if something happens I can tell myself at least I warned them.

That is actually what I have heard the rangers tell people who ask that question. A few years ago on one of my rim-rim-rim escapades we encountered a small group of non-English speaking tourists with little to no gear at the Indian Garden. We couldn't communicate with them, but they had no water and no lights (it was just after sundown).

I always try to let people know (usually visitors to here in hell) that they need to have water with them even on a "short" hike in the AZ summer. Have had a few people get pissy and I simply explain that when they inevitably call 911 that a bunch of firefighters will be out here hiking in to carry you out. Heck, I was even told by one jerk word to the effect if ?that is you job, if you don?t like get another one?

Most people appreciate the advice; others are just are bound and determine to kill themselves and their families despite everyone?s best efforts and intentions. Like Forest?s mama used to say ?Stupid is as Stupid does?

And I thought I was cynical.

You don't flash your lights to other drivers to let them know that there is a road crew working around the next corner? I'm not talking about holding thier hands and wiping thier noses. I'm talking about civility.

And having the right to mock them later. It's kinda like voting- if you didn't do it, you can't complain.

Almost always while hiking and I pass someone, one of us will ask about the trail ahead, or distance to the cars (depending on the direction we're traveling). The friendly chit-chat is one reason I love to go backpacking so much. In essence, I think we're not "warning" them, but just giving them an update on conditions, and letting that person decide. I'd never sit there and critique their equipment, since who knows what they have in their pack?

The last person I flashed my lights to try and warn them responded by coming into my lane, turning on his high beams, and blaring his horn at me. I wonder if he saw the Glock that was pointed in his direction as he swerved by with his finger in the air?

Yep, cynical.