Please do not take alarm with what I am saying, but look at it from my standpoint. A lawfully armed citizen has nothing to hide. A person sneaking around my flank, in camo, with a gun is suspect. Personally, I can tell the difference. But, and this is a big BUT, that doesnt mean everyone can.

There are two types of scenarios I was referring to in my post, and I guess I did not make that clear. One is a natural disaster and you are absolutely correct about the number of people carrying weapons and wearing outdoors clothing.

The other is a terrorist attack. When that happens, you are really putting yourself in a bad spot if you are sneaking around checkpoints and trying to avoid the military/Law enforcement.

There are alot of nuances that can be explored with this conversation. All I wanted to do was ask why you would want to move undetected and just throw a few points out there for everyone to think about.

Garrett

Fair enough. I for one have no intention of hiding from or avoiding any checkpoints. In the case of a terrorist attack I would fully expect the authorities to attempt to make damn sure no suspects were able to escape by mixing in with the refugees. In that case I might consider a rather rigorous search to be reasonable, after which I would expect to be allowed to continue on my way.

Of course I might change my mind if it appears that weapons, supplies, or anything else is being confiscated, a la Katrina.

And a very good set of points that you have made, judging by the feedback! To each his own.

As has been said above "not being seen" is more about technique and not what you wear.

British DPM is very good at what it was designed to do, hide soldiers in the north of europe from rampaging russian hordes streaming over the inner german border.

It however stands out like a sore thumb in an environment it wasn't designed for ie urban, desert or snow, and its much better to wear specifically designed camouflage or subdued colours. Greys, olives, tans and dark blue are best.

I dont know where you stay in Scotland, but as a test next time your out in a town see how quickly it takes you to scope out DPM. Marpat is so uncommon it would stand out more.

What Chris states above is spot on, hairy arsed highlanders used to disapear easily into the hills, thats where we get "hunting" pattern tartans from. The brighter colours were ceremonial.

My favorite camouflage has to still be Temperate DPM, i've been wearing it for 20 odd years.( I did go through a phase of wearing tropical DPM for a while but got out of it when combat 95 came out)

Worst is Belgian, its garish to say the least.

Re Chris Kavanaugh - The problem with the Harris Tweeds and the toned down tartans is that although these fabrics make excellent camouflage gear (digital camouflage developed in Scotland over 3000 years ago before the introduction of MARPAT?) and although these materials are reasonably warm they have some disadvantages. The Harris Tweeds and Tartan fabrics are at the end of the day just very high quality woolen wear. The fabrics once wet become extremely heavy and are not particularly windproof. The weather in Scotland can generally be described as wet and windy. Scotland has some of the best hypothermia weather in the world. Even on a summers day in the highlands you could experience 2 to 5 degrees C with sleet, rain , snow and bright sunshine in a 40-50 mph wind with winds gusting even higher. Apparently even the Swiss Army train here. I once once in Cuba back some years ago sitting through a hurricane called Irene when one of the locals asked me if a was scared. I replied 'Of course not, just like the weather back home, only the rain is warmer'. Never did get to meet Fidel, apparently he was rescuing some European tourists from the Hurricane that day! But I digress, back to the fabrics. I originally started of with modern fabrics such as Goretex and Windstopper Fleece, Polypro etc. These fabrics are excellent when used appropriately but have some serious downsides. They do not breath particularly well, catch fire beside open fires and begin to really stink after a few days out in the wilderness especially the Polypro undergarments(Those poor SF soldiers, constipated, caffeine induced anxiety AND smell as well). I have since changed to Merino Wool and Ventile cotton with a simple cheap Goretex S95 Liner worn under the Ventile cotton jacket if it gets really wet. The ventile cotton jacket is more robust, breaths better and is a lot quieter than the Goretex. Although the Ventile cotton is not 100% waterproof hence the Goretex I find that it gives the best balance between robustness, comfort and weather protection. Goretex is great if only it rained all the time and only a moderate ambling pace were kept.

Re Johno - I am based in Scotland not far (less than 30 miles) from my Forum Name Ben Tirran

Re Nighthiker and Garret. - I really don't understand the arguments put forward by both sides. I might be straying into politics (I apologise before hand as this is possibly against house rules) but isn't true that the United States is a democratic country, in which has its citizens freedoms are enshrined in a written constitution. Is not fair to say that no terrorist attack however heinous or any natural disaster can undermine the principles put forward in that constitution, because the constitution is in reality just a powerful set of democratic ideals and objectives. Only its citizens and its elected representatives of the United States of America can undermine its constitution through apathy, corruption and tyranny. Why would armed US marines or armed US army personnel be deployed under these circumstances? Isn't the Presidents elective position to serve and protect the constitution. Is it not the elective Presidents duty to serve all its citizens and that the armed services are there to serve the President as Commander in Chief thereby serving its citizens. Here I think lies the problem you face. Conflicts between individuals and nations arises because the citizens and leaders of these nations have disregarded a set of well understood and well known international laws. It makes me sad that the US government has even difficulty implementing the Geneva Conventions on the treatment of Prisoners of War. This has happened in the UK also. Instead of being fearful about terrorism and natural disaster isn't it probably more wise to have a think about a Quotation from a former President Franklin D. Roosevelt 'There is nothing to fear but fear itself'. This quote also applies when you are cold tired and hungry in the wilderness also because fear is perhaps the most debilitating impediments to a successful outcome of personal survival.

Gents, My thoughts are as stated, Blend in with your environment. If its urban/suburban then durable non disrupt street clothes. In an evacuation, you do not want to draw the attention of the bad guys or the good guys, You want to be the "Gray Man" that nobody remembers seeing.

Why would I not want to be found? Depends on the scenario, but I can think of a few in which it would be advantageous to disappear in the forest, and remain there indefinitely. In the woods, I prefer basic OD/khaki's,browns, for the express purpose of not being confused with an official, or bad guy. Anyway, if you spend enough time there, the basic colors begin to blend with the environment ( kind of like a black aide bag in the Persian Gulf, soon its not black any more.

I always try to buy my clothing as my first layer of shelter. Bring a sewing kit and the skills to use it, take care of your clothes because replacements may be hard to come by. Regards, Jim

An additional note, I have found (non-scientifically) that attitude contributes greatly to "invisibility" If I believe that I am invisible, then I AM invisible, to about 75% of the people who are within eyesight of me.
Eye contact is a strange but true phenomenon, IMHO. If you are watching someone, they can generally feel it even though they can't see you. If someone is watching you, you can feel it even though you can't see them. If you are concealed and you lock eyes with someone else, they will see you then.
That's been my experience.

A quick note, NightHiker: The confiscation program was ordered and carried out by the City of New Orleans, not FEMA.

Stealth, I can roger scaring people. I'm average highest, a bit pudgier than average but also somewhat muscular, with a goatee and long hair. And glasses. But I scare a lot of people because I walk briskly, have my head up, and make eye contact, along with looking like I should be in Chris' mythical pagan biker gang. I've spent the past 15 years trying to learn how to not do it, and it doesn't seem to be changing.

Bentirran, I dont want this to get too political, and from what see I think we are talking past each other. I am bowing out of this discussion in this forum, but if you would like to take it up over private messages or email, please let me know.

I never did say welcome to the forum, and for that I am sorry, so let me correct my mistake and say "Welcome to our little piece of the web!!"

I hope to talk to you more, on another topic, sometime soon!

Garrett