Almost seems like the same thing as the common calculator. Many people today can't do common math by using paper and pencil, but they do however use a calculator, some every day.

But one can't usually expect to wander around for hours ignoring navigation, then whip out a map and compass and find your position and the way home. (Yes you can triangulate, but you would know its not always possible to do that.) It encourages you to be aware of your position at all times.

How about being realistic?

Reality is what it is. You cannot change human nature and you cannot legislate common sense. I can try to encourage the use of available tools that may actually get used. Will some misuse them or be stupid? Sure, but we don't stop putting anti-lock brakes on automobiles because a well-trained driver in many cases can stop shorter with more control or because some people are encouraged to take more risks in adverse conditions assuming they will save them. Overall, it saves lives.

I'll stick with my advice because I know that it's the best overall solution considering the audience and the reality that is out there today. That's my job. I don't allow myself the luxury of being idealistic. It's counterproductive.

I agree that we seem to have a difference of opinion.

I don't agree that this will get more people in to trouble than it will help. If GPSs didn't have battery life indicators, were easily broken, or had enough failure rates to actually be a realistic concern my opinion would be different.

I honestly feel that Doug's advice will help many more people than it will hurt.

Re: Doug, NightHiker and Meline,

As I said, we have two incompatible philosophies. And I do hope that you are right in this case.

"People are going to [blindly wander in the woods] anyway, so we should tell them they should at least wear a [GPS]."

Great sources of info on GPS's:

http://gpsinformation.net/

http://forums.groundspeak.com

For handheld models it seems that the Garmin GPSMAP 60 and 76 series Cx and CSx models are the best of the best.

The new SiRF chipset on those is absolutely amazing in its ability to lock onto satellites.

Yes, the art of using a map and compass is quickly vanishing, whilst forays into the wilderness areas are increasing.

Since it is a given that people will go out into the woods regardless of their orienteering abilities, and since we are now a gadget society, it is a reasonable recommendation that people with little or no traditional navigation skills and subsequently no mindset for how to stay un-lost in the big woods ought to be advised to at least invest in something. The alternative view that without a GPS they would then resort to learning the proper skills or not venturing forth is unrealistic. People are going to do this because they don't know any better, overestimate their abilities, and are just plain lazy. A GPS can be considered the instant gratification answer to remaining un-lost. It is not a panacea, and is not being recommended as such. It is a tool capable of compensating for a certain amount of stuipidity on the part of the would-be adventurer so that if they do make an error or two in judgement, they will at least have one more very simple method of correcting the error on their own.

Simply put, you are not going to have any significant measure of success beyond what we already experience trying to convince regular folk that proper orienteering skills and abilities are necessary for their survival. The effort required to affect that sort of change is disproportionate to the desired outcome. You stand a far greater chance of advocating that regular folks at least equip themselves with something readily available, reasonably economical, and fairly reliable, that they will be able to more or less intuitively operate with a modicum of learning.

Doug's recommendation of carrying a GPS is germaine, practical, and likely to do far more good than harm, not that he needs my endorsement in any way. Will some people still have problems getting lost in the woods despite his advice? Well, I remember a quote from the movie "Cool Hand Luke" about a failure to communicate. Anyone who is living in such a social vacuum that they still don't get that the big woods can be a dangerous place despite all the publicity, will continue to be part of the "statistics".

I have a friend that can't use a map for anything but starting a fire, and I'm not even sure he use one to do that. I have tried to show him the simplest uses of a compass, and the only thing he understands is that one side of the needle points north. Ok he honestly isn't that bad but he cannot use a compass or a topo map. Give him a GPS and he does ok and can generly find his way around. He and some folks like him cannot grasp the use of the compass and map so for them the GPS is the right way to go. He is resposible enough to know his limitations and works within them.

Hate to beat a dead horse, but I guess that's never stopped me before.

I guess I'm just confused by the fact that according to you folks, people that can't find "N" on a compass will find a GPS "intuitive". Perhaps they should make a compass that looks like it has a digital LCD screen, a bunch of non-functional buttons and batteries that don't power anything.

Print instructions on the map that say "Hold digital virtual satellite compass unit. Turn your body until "N" faces up. Stop. Hold map so you can read this. Look at map. Look around. Repeat as required until something looks familiar."

By the way, if you are a typical PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. who uses a GPS like Bob the elk hunter, the GPS does not keep you unlost at all. You set a waypoint at you car and put it in your pocket. The moment you step into the woods you are LOST. You STAY lost until hours later you decide its time to go home and you take the GPS out of your pocket to find which way is back to your car.

And I'm curious what these mental midgets who can't find "N" did before you introduced them to GPS? Where they just really really lucky and accidentally find their way out every time they had gone into the woods?

I'm with Doug on this one, and primarily because I spent my entire adult life working with "the motoring public." I can tell you that the majority of those folks can not even operate all of the basic controls on their superduper all automatic cars. Let the automatic headlight dimmer go belly up, they don't have a clue how to dim the lights themself. Have a truck overturn blocking the off ramp they take to work every day they are lost, because they do not have a map of the city (Los Angeles in this example) they live and work in. Show them your Thomas Guide and they look at it as if it is written in Greek. Tell them to go north so far, then turn east, you get a blank look. So you make it simple and tell them to go "this way" (pointing) so far, then turn right; half of them will look left.

Using a map and compass to navigate is a skill that needs to be learned and practiced often, and the majority of "the public" are not going to do it, no matter what. If they don't have a map of their home city, they are not going to buy one of the area they will be in for a few hours/days/weeks. I recently had to spend $11 for the topo of the area we are currently in, primarily because I love maps, but also needed to refresh my use of map and compass, and wanted to try using the UTM feature of my GPS for the first time (I like it). John Doe Public isn't going to do this. So, if having a GPS only helps 50% of the users, I figure it is a good deal. But I suspect that the average number will be higher than that...