Another reason to be prepared:

I am currently reading Dare to Prepare by Holly Drennan Deyo, and just finished the part about emergency shelters. It's different from what I expected, and I didn't expect much from shelters to begin with. I never intend to end up in a shelter, but that doesn't mean anything.

She suggests bringing things not usually recommended here at ETS, and why.

1) She says that depending on the situation, shelters may only be able to provide water and snacks, "and some may not be able to provide any food whatsoever", and suggested you bring your own,including the usual 1 gal per day per person. Also bring eating & drinking utensils, paper plates, towels, napkins & an ice chest with ice. She said if you bring your gear in lidded 5-gallon buckets, you can use them for seats.

2) Along with your own hygiene products, bring your own toilet paper as "some shelters ran out during Hurricane Charley".

3) Keep all your medications in the original containers so if there is an incident, the shelter workers will know what and how much you're taking.

4) Shelter electrical outlets may be in high demand, or power non-existent, so keep a car charger adapter for your cell phone with you.

5) Security may be minimal to non-existent, so keep your cash and credit/atm cards on your person. Also, your car may not be safe in a shelter parking lot, so keep it in mind and don't leave valuables there, locked out of sight or not.

6) BYOB means bring your own bedding: blankets, sleeping bags, pillows for all family members. If you have someone with you who is infirm or has trouble getting up and down, bring a folding cot.

7) Bring several changes of clothing, as you may be there for a few days. Also bring the clothes you'll need for when you return home, for whatever conditions you're expecting.

8) Entertainment in the form of radios, TVs and computer games needs to be quiet, so don't forget the headsets.

Her lists are not really all-inclusive, but I guess she thought that over 500 pages was enough.

Sue

A question that seems to come up often reguarding shelters is weather or not those in charge can take things you bring with you to distribute to those without. It sounds bad to think about it but I've ran into people before who seem to expect that you give them your food/water/gear and those are the last people I tend to give things to, I will give someone in need if I can. I had roommates in college who thought everything was public property so I ended up having to hide things just to keep them otherwise I would be out of food the day after I bought it.

Good suggestions all. But if I've got that much stuff I doubt I'll be needing a public shelter.

I was thinking the same thing. If you need to provide all that equipment on your own, it sounds like going to a shelter is useless, and actually with the associated personal security risks even more counterproductive. If you have to have your own food, water, personal hygene supplies, bedding, entertainment, it seems like the only thing a public shelter can supply is literally shelter. If you can rig a cozy shelter for your family, I'd skip the evac shelter altogether.

Since our current lifestyle has us moving all over the place every few months, we rarely, if ever, even know where any type of shelter is. But is we did locate one, and need to go in, having all of our tent camping stuff (including a solar/battery/crank radio), at least three gallons of water, and three or more days worth of food, utensils, with a stove, would come in really handy...

I've helped on on shelter drills, a couple of shelter activations (very few 'customers') and some ERV stuff

Frankly, some stuff they will have too MUCH of - some they will be totally missing, and NO ONE will accurately know what is going on for at least the first 4-6 hours or so - until shelter A,B and C all report and say "we have 15 clients, but have 40 cots, are good on snacks, but have no meals and are low on toilet paper" - and shelter B says "We have 30 clients, only 20 cots, plenty of meals and TP" - and they get a truck to go from B to A with food and TP, and back with cots

Frankly, in the intital load out - they have to GUESS, and some things get mis packed - meals usually come later. They have kits for "N" people - cots, TP etc, and frankly, they ALWAYS have snack food on the trucks - Sometimes I think if I see another box of Oreo cookies, snack chips, hot cocoa, and instant coffee with powdered creamer....

I found a $75 high top cap and stuck it on my truck, it doesn't look pretty but in a worst case scenario I have a 5 wide by 6.5' long by 5' tall portable shelter with me at all times.

Eugene:
If there is Just you , you might get away with the pick-up cap, But if you have a family you have no place for your equipment. Better get a small trailer to pull behind the truck.

Susan do you recommend the book ? I have been interested in buying it but would like your feedback. Thanks Marv

I always thought that a trailer made out of an old pickup bed with a cap on it would make the perfect trailer. And if the P/U had a utility bed on it some much better. Cut down on the space inside, but all of those storage compartments on the side would be really nice...

Truck is extended cab and I keep a lot of equipment stashed in the cab already under seats and such so there is some room. I'm looking around local junk yards for a sliding rear window so swap out my non sliding to make it easier to pass gear from the fron to the back. And even then the cap is a worst case where its not safe to pitch our tent.
I forgot to mention I did get the whole trailering package so I can add that on too. Problem I ran into now is the city passed a law forbidding trailers from being parked by your house so I won't be able to get one until we can move outside the city limits but than I plan to either buy an old one and rebuild it or build a modified teardrop trailer (I plan to stretch it to the same height as the top of the truck cap so it will hatch in height and give more space inside)

I've always wanted to do that my my wife doesn't like the idea of a hillbilly trailer. But my thought is if I get the bed from the same make and model of truck so it matches it would look nice.
Plus I'm thinking could have the same tires for spares and the gas tank for extra there as well.

Hey, that's a great idea!

-Blast

Why stop there, if it's the same make and model, you would have a spare axle, gear oil (over fill the trailer's pumpkin) brakes, tires, drive line (strap it under the trailer), spare springs, shocks, gas tank, tail gate, bumpers, etc. I have a friend who has actually done this for off-road use. Put the same lift kit, tires, etc on his trailer that he did on his rig. Hasn't had to cannibalize his trailer yet, but it sounds like a great idea

You may remember scenes from Houston when Hurricane Rita was barreling down on us. New Orleans had just been destroyed so over a million people tried leaving Houston. A quarter of those drove past our house just off I-45. We live about 25 miles from downtown Houston but even that close we had dozens of cars breaking down or running out of gas by us. At the time there were many emergency shelters popping up at churches/schools but neither the evacuees nor we knew where these shelters were.

After everything settled down I combed the internet and found all the places used as emergency shelters in a ten-mile radius and plotted them on a map. This map isn't for me/my family. It's to pass out to stranded people the next time something like this happens. I don't want them on my doorstep again!

-Blast

Well i don't know how shelters are setup in other country's, but in mine the supplies are NOT stored at the shelters. They have to be shipped in. Food and water are from primairy supplied by local suppliers, the local govermant should have pramade deals with the suppliers. Shelters are placed OUTSIDE directly effected area's.

Thats the thought. Only problem is its getting hard to find a decent truck bed, all that are out there are from the toyotas that had the weak frame so the trucks bent in the middle, anything else is either rusted away or messed up from the accident that totaled the truck, you find very few in tach truck parts in the junk yards.

If I have to go to a shelter, I plan on taking my 3 person dome tent for privacy inside the shelter. It's free standing and I could stash all my stuff out of sight of the others in the shelter.

Eugene:

Don't know where you live, but go on-line and order one from So. Calif or AZ. There are lots of good Large truck beds out here. Then have it trucked to your location. I bought a whole front end for my wifes car and had it trucked from OK. did't cost that much.

better check with the local shelter manager and see if they will let you set up a tent inside of the shelter.

Check w/ JC Whitney or a local body shop on the sliding window. It might be as cheap going this route as the junk yard after you figure in your time to find & go get it.

Eugene: "..whether or not those in charge can take things you bring with you to distribute to those without."

That seems to be a frequent worry, but I've never heard of it happening. They may be happy enough that you're not a drain on the supplies, and it's hard to see how one person or even a family could bring enough stuff that it would be worth the confrontation.

Coastie09: "If you need to provide all that equipment on your own, it sounds like going to a shelter is useless..."

While most of us here would probably avoid the shelters if possible, many people that have the 'stuff' might be too scared to go it alone, despite the disadvantages. And if you're facing something that requires a shelter (hurricane, tornados), you may need the actual shelter, and when the event is over, you can leave with your gear.

KC2IXE: "...they get a truck to go from B to A with food and TP, and back with cots."

Have you ever seen where the trucks couldn't get through? I'm thinking earthquake debris, high water, etc.

MajorMarv: "Susan do you recommend the book ?"

Overall, yes. There's stuff and methods that we at ETS think of as SOP, that she doesn't cover, so I wouldn't say it's a what-&-how-to bible, but it does cover a lot. The people new to preparedness would have a lot of good information laid out for them in a reasonable order. I would buy it if I could afford it ($40USD).

Re: the pickup trailer. My brother wants to put together one of these. Other than the advantage of cannibalization, it seems there are better ways to go. I've camped in the back of a pickup with a shell. It's not too bad for one person, if you have a 24-30" wide piece of plywood from side to side behind the cab for gear, but for family, no.

If you look at one of those trailers that have a flat floor without the wheelwells, there is no comparison in floor space. And if you customized it with folddown bunks and storage, you could carry an incredible amount of gear AND house your whole family. And if your tow vehicle had a camper shell on it, you could carry even more.

Sue, who drools over race car trailers...

Blast - I lived on the gulf coast of Florida for most of my life and have both bugged out and hunkered down for hurricanes over the years but now I'm in Northern Alabama and far enough from the coast that hunkering down is the most likely senario for me. Now one of my biggest concerns is my small town being invade by those who are trying to bug out and your map idea is great. Thanks for sharing!

[quote=Susan]
Re: the pickup trailer. My brother wants to put together one of these. Other than the advantage of cannibalization, it seems there are better ways to go. I've camped in the back of a pickup with a shell. It's not too bad for one person, if you have a 24-30" wide piece of plywood from side to side behind the cab for gear, but for family, no.

If you look at one of those trailers that have a flat floor without the wheelwells, there is no comparison in floor space. And if you customized it with folddown bunks and storage, you could carry an incredible amount of gear AND house your whole family. And if your tow vehicle had a camper shell on it, you could carry even more.

[quote]

One of the reasons I had to move up to a full size truck was because of having a family, the small/mid sized extended cab didn't have enough room for the car seats in the back and the quad cab small/mid sized trucks have a real short bed and an extended cab full size has more cab space and gets the same mpg. The plus side on the full size is the bed is 6.5' long which makes it bood for sleeping in and I have 4' between the wheelwells so two can sleep side by side easily. I measued my queen mattress at home and its 52" wide, our full size in the spare room is 48 so a full size truck bed is equivalent to a full size (sleeping) bed. So its comfortable for two adults and if we did have to evac/shelter sometime in the near future I would probably have my 1 year old sleep in his car seat, he has slept in it on long trips before so its wouldn't be any different. Either that or move the gear from under the back seat and it lifts giving a flat floor there. If its not hurricane weather then we put up the tent and set up his pack and play like we did camping last summer (which I used as a stealth evac/bug out test and have another planned in a couple months).

Blast,

I remembered what happened here at the Dallas end of the evacuation. When people arrived, their cars were nearly out of gas so they needed to fill up when they got here. Before they left, they filled up again. The downside is that many stations ran out of gas that weekend due to the extra demand. Since that time, I've always driven off the top half of the tank rather than let it go empty.

I'm just grateful that Rita turned east at the last minute. The original forecast had they eye pass over DFW while still packing Category 1 or 2 force. I doubt that we would have handled the situation as those on the coast who are more experienced.

BTW - if you ever need to get out of dodge, let me know. We'll let you camp out with the family in the backyard (but only if you let me play with all of your cool gear)

- Brian

Sounds like a winning deal to me! Running to someplace closer than Minnesota would be a good thing. Hopefully we'll never need to outrun a hurricane but like they say, "never is a very long time".

-Blast

I'm as far away as Ohio and we had gas stations run out of gas that very weekend. Had a couple raise the price to over $3 per gallon the day before the hurricane hit, I made a note of those and never buy gas from them.
I poured my 4 gallon can into my truck then went and topped it off and refilled the 5 gallon can that night before it hit but I need to get some decent gas cans, the cheap blitz things in all the hardware stores leak too mucm.

IMHO, a public shelter is the last place I would want to go in an emergency. If you come properly equipped, then it is likely you will not be admitted in an emergency without at least identifying all your provisions to whoever is in charge, and run the risk of them being confiscated sooner or later in a "Triage" environment, where you either give up the goods or get kicked out, maybe without them anyways. This may not be the program at the shelters now, but it is a plausible enough probability that I would not take the risk. I've seen firsthand how it works elsewhere. What are the advantages of a public shelter over a private one?

Well, maybe you will have better access to certain services, provided there is a doctor or two and some nurses that are in the shelter with you, and they have the supplies they need to do their work. Likely there will also be a greater exposure to communicable disease, and there's no way of knowing the condition of the supplies you would be relying on. Then there's the security issue, do you really think they will let you bring a firearm into the shelter with you?

I would rather find a suitable location myself and make my own shelter and equip it as I see fit. Then if TSHTF, I am not relying on whether or not someone else knew what they were doing and could take care of business.

If anything was ever made perfectly clear by katrina it's DONT BECOME A REFUGEE. Plan ahead a way out and a place to go, find a state park or campground that you can pitch a tent and camp out anything but stay at a shelter run by any .gov branch or red cross. You will be stuck with people you dont know anything about the guy next to you could be a convicted murderer or child rapist or welfare bum or aids and tb infected psyco for all you know and as the old saying goes ya gotta sleep sometime. If you take medication it may be confiscated by whoevers in charge for the greater good, that goes for food and personal items also. You could wake up and half your stuff or your wife or kids missing. I know some people that worked in the shelters that katrina people were evacuated to here in San Antonio and they all said they would never subject themselves to that ever again, everything from people demanding diffrent food to the fact that men and boys or women and girls never went to the bathrooms alone for safety sakes. If I cant stay where I'm at then I'll pick the place I go and will feel safe and secure at.

If you did get admitted with all of your gear, security in those things ain't always the greatest and you better be willing to defend whats your's. I have worked around "shelters" both here and overseas and there is always a few who are willing to bully everyone and very few to stand against them. My advice do what ever it takes to stay away from them.

Susan,
Truck not getting from A to B - then the shelter won't have staff, or supplies

At least around here (NYC) they RARELY own an actual shelter!

Most times (let's say a big fire) they open a "reception center", sign you in, and transport you to a hotel that they have a contract with - and hand you vouchers for food/clothing etc

IF and when they have to open a shelter, the mostly likely place is a local High School, particularly if school is NOT in session - it has the advantage of lots of room, lots of bathrooms, small rooms where the can isolate folks if need be, a nurses office, and a lunch room

The thing is, they won't have ANY staff there, any gear - nothing. They will have to roll a truck and some staff vehicles from either City HQ or one of the sub HQs. Even if they can't get from shelter A to Shelter B - hopefully they can get from one of the centers to the shelter. And they are NOT adverse to sending staff to the local deli/supermarket (the one 'live' shelter I was at that actually had clients - that's how we handled it - there was only 2 clients, it was easier to go to the deli and buy them lunch than send a truck out with catered food)

Like I said - the staff that will open the shelter will probably have a basic setip with them - it's a rolling cabinet or 2 with enough stuff to get started

Why not get the plans for a home built hard-side pop-up or teardrop trailer and build your own, or get a utility or camping trailer and modify the inside to what you want? Very high winds may make them unstable while moving or parked, but good tie downs will help. You can the "shelter" within reason where you want, or leave the area with a reasonable amount of supplies if you need to go.
I've a trailer that is loaded if I need to go, and will support me for several weeks (and then some) if I lose my home.
I built in baffled tanks for 80 gal truck fuel, 100gal fresh water and 120 gal grey water in my trailer. I used a 6000 pound axel, with elec breaks and that uses wheels and tires that fit my tow vehicle. The trailer has a steel locking gun cabinet in it for valuables, firearms and ammo. A generator, propane stove and oven, awnings and bunks with storage were all added. It's not pretty, but it fits my needs.

I just read through the threads and have this to add:

Yes, I recommend "Dare To Prepare". Yes, most of us here are beyond most of it's content, except for the fact that it is a great reminder for those of us in the middle of trying to bug out AND not forget anything. Also check out Nuclear War Survival Skills -Chapter 4 - Evacuation.

IRT Shelters - I think I'll be better off outrunning the hurricane and find a cave, using my Topo Charts. I know that I can place a certain amount of faith and trust in the shelter operators but it's the inmates that can't be trusted. How many times have you seen the Police arrive at the moment needed to stop the crime before it can occur? I don't find the idea of CSI "where ever" catching my killer afterwards, being a comfort. I don't like being denied the right to defend myself and property. I CAN DIG A BUNKER (like in the war movies) in 12 hours, if need be.

Remember the amount of hand guns that were taken off of Katrina refugees in Houston (1st stop)? Look at the crime statistics of every city that those same refugee were relocated to (starting w/Houston). Look at the number of hand guns that were taken off of those refugees when they arrved at new shelters in other cities, AFTER being shook down by the Houston and San Antonio Police Depts. 60% of the refugees arriving in Boston were arrested upon arrival for illegal possession of handguns stolen from NOLA stores.

The intelligence level of the NOLA refugees are further documented by the receipts that FEMA has received because of the "Debit Cards" - They came from well known disaster supply points like Houston strip bars, jewellry stores, liquor stores, etc. That's why FEMA cancelled the Debit Card Idea. It left a very good paper trail that shows how the money was actually spent.

I'll go to my room now.

That was my plan. I had a Toyota P/U, wanted a similar rear half, same paint, etc. Now my ex drive that Toyota, which is great by me...

"...I would buy it if I could afford it..."

Go here, you can find new or like new books for a fraction of the retail cost...

"60% of the refugees arriving in Boston were arrested upon arrival for illegal possession of handguns stolen from NOLA stores."


Do you have a link to this stat?

that's what the stat worked out to based on how many were reported delivered to Boston and how many of them were found with handguns

It probably should be pointed out that what constitutes a legally carried handgun in Louisiana may well be deemed illegal in Boston.

I will second that, Louisiana, Like most of the South & West allows firearms (loaded,accessible) in your car. Also non concealed carry is permitted ( except in airports,schools) everywhere.
MASS has some of the most restricted laws in the country.
Please note having a firearm is TYPICAL in Louisiana, most people do and may not be aware that the northeast have a different take.

I wonder if security is present in most shelters ?
It would seem like some form of legal obligation to provide physical security exist.

Personally I can't imagine resorting to a public shelter.
Most of the buildings used are just marginally better than a basement or office building if that.

MA actually allows you to carry handguns, but they MUSt be out of public view (i.e., concealed). Its a matter of getting a license to carry that is a PITA. Pretty much, if you dont personally know the local police chief, you wont get a class A LTC. Why? He doesnt need a reason. He can simply say no, and there's nothing you can do. Scary. And, I live here!!!

In the NE USA, a permit is required to purchase a weapon and a permit is required to purchase ammo. Permits are required to store a weapon @ home and a permit is required to keep ammo @ home. A permit for each is required to transport weapon and ammo to wherever (range, woods, etc.) and to return them.

Basically the Yanks have figured out that since they can't prohibit weapons ownership under the Constitutional 2nd Amendment, they CAN regulate it to death.

The Liberals have already figured out that they can put a hugh-mongrous tax on each bullet and that would prohibit people from buying ammo. The same is true of weapons. They are merely waiting for their chance to get it passed.

Huh? Where did you get this info??

that's in NYC back in 1979-1981. That's why I left my weps in the south.

That must be a NYC thing only, because long guns and ammo are not regulated in the rest of NY state that I know of, and pistol permits are regulated by the individual counties. I do know that pistol permits are almost impossible to get in NYC.

Here is a quick ref to NYC laws. And while they seem very tight to most of us, they appear to be better than the Sulivan Law that used to be in effect there, if I recall correctly it totally prohibited possession of a handgun. At least now there appears to be a possibility of getting a permit for one...

Ain't it funny how some little piece of paper can control our lives, like trying to get the illusive concealed carry permit in NYC?

Well, if they can't see it, then they won't know I suppose. I ain't gonna waste time asking for permits for this'n that, which I won't be given anyways, when I've been toting mine for the past twenty plus years without a hitch. Permit or not, if I ever had to use one to defend myself, I always figured I'd end up in front of a Judge for doing it. Better to be branded a criminal for doing the RIGHT thing and taking care of me and mine, than to shrug at the wife and tell her the reason she's about to become a victim is cuz I'm not allowed to do anything about it, 'cept maybe die first.

Stupid laws for stupid people.

The way I always saw it, filing a permit application was my way of letting the local constabulary know what I was going to do whether he said okay or not. Not much he can do about it until it's too late anyways, unless I was real stupid about it.

Don't think it will be any different with knives once they start pushing stupid laws about carrying, and even owning, them as well. Just ask Doug...or anyone here in Australia, or England, or...except for people living in Baghdad, who are allowed to own personal firearms and BIG knives. How can a place under martial law have more self defense liberties than my own neighborhood back home???

Wow, I didn't expect to have the last word on this one...

True enough maybe. But if something takes your curret shelter you'll need to be somewhere...at least temporarily. A shelter may be an acceptible option.

The only way I'll ever be found in a public shelter is if I am too injured to keep somebody from dragging me there. I'd rather sleep in a debris shelter or a cardboard box than rely on a series of bureaucrats to make life and death decisions for me and my family.