#87222 - 03/03/07 05:46 AM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!!
[Re: CANOEDOGS]
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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I have read several places that gluing wounds closed is dependent on the wound really being cleaned inside first. If you glue "dirt" inside you are setting yourself up for infection...
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#87230 - 03/03/07 03:22 PM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!!
[Re: CANOEDOGS]
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Addict
Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
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OBG.. all the normal first aid rules apply..i always swab down any wound with a povidone-iodine prep pad..i think they are sold as "betadine" ??? spelling--pads they work much better than alcohol pads as they "skin over" the cut..
Do not use povidone iodine directly in the wound; it burns the tissue and prevents healing. PI or Betadine need to be diluted tenfold before it should be use this way. The wipes are for cleaning around a wound on healty skin. If you are closing wounds with Derma or Vetbond you should irrigate the wound with a highly diluted PI solution to clean it.
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#87233 - 03/03/07 03:29 PM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!!
[Re: CANOEDOGS]
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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I was thinking a lacerations a little deeper, so we may be talking apples and oranges here. If those deeper ones are not flushed, and flushed a lot, the possibility of sealing some nasty stuff inside seems very possible/probable. When I read that the military starting gluing wounds closed several years ago, my understanding was that they might use glue on a field/combat injury, to rapidly close a wound, with the understanding that it would have to be debrided by a surgeon at a later date.
For the usual minor scrapes and owies I do use Skin Shield a lot, I seem to heal faster with that that a bandaid...
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#87246 - 03/03/07 06:32 PM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!! ??? FOR BILLYM
[Re: billym]
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 1032
Loc: The Netherlands
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I use betadine-solution with 100mg/ml povidone-iodine. According to the instructions and my personal experience it can be used directly on the wound.
Edited by JIM (03/03/07 06:32 PM)
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#87257 - 03/03/07 10:46 PM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!! ??? FOR BILLYM
[Re: JIM]
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Addict
Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
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Jim, Follow the above link. This is a clinical study that shows even the lowest concentrations of PI inhibit cell regrowth.
Sure we have all used it on wounds before,myself included but medicine is a "practice" and ever changing. CPR has even changed recently. New studies do not recommend using PI in any concentration directly in an open wound.
There is some antiseptic benefit to putin PI directly in a wound but that does not mean you have damaged the tissue and inhibited healing.
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#87260 - 03/03/07 11:31 PM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!! ??? FOR BILLYM
[Re: billym]
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Journeyman
Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 93
Loc: Central Ohio
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Clinical studies are great in the clinic, but how about us out on the trail? Betadine packs are easy to carry and do disinfect. I guess the question should be what is the best replacement? If you are way out in the woods, I would rather use Betadine when I know it will prevent infection before I glue a wound together, than take a chance on someother method. (I hate to use alcohol on a open wound also). If it takes a few days longer to heal, so what, as long as you have kept infection away. I think most of us have used Betadine on wounds, and they all eventually healed. I can't say that I have ever noticed a significant time delay on wound healing with or without Betadine. It may be better to not use it, but I don't think it is necessarily wrong to use it either.
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#87269 - 03/04/07 01:31 AM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!! ??? FOR BILLYM
[Re: Seeker890]
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Addict
Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
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The question you need to really ask is whether or not to close the wound at all. If you are willing to use iodine in a wound because it is dirty then you should not close the wound to begin with.
Hell my Dad used to dump hydorgen peroxide in my wounds; don't mean it is the right thing to do these days.
The best replacement is benzalkonium chloride.
Edited by billym (03/04/07 04:24 AM)
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#87272 - 03/04/07 01:40 AM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!! ??? FOR BILLYM
[Re: billym]
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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"...dump hydorgen peroxide in my wounds..."
I do that on myself from time to time, usually with a dirty abrasion. Looks really cool when it starts foaming and bubbling...
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#87281 - 03/04/07 04:27 AM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!! ??? FOR BILLYM
[Re: billym]
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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Yeah, it looks like it is eating your flesh like acid. So cool...
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#87285 - 03/04/07 05:22 AM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!! ??? FOR BILLYM
[Re: billym]
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Addict
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 503
Loc: Quebec City, Canada
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The best replacement is benzalkonium chloride.
+1 on this. Easily available in small tearable packets. Iodine causes damage to tissue, and so does alcohol. Alcohol is used to disinfect instruments, and iodine is used to disinfect uninjured skin.
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#87295 - 03/04/07 07:42 AM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!! ??? FOR BILLYM
[Re: SARbound]
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Newbie
Registered: 03/13/03
Posts: 35
Loc: Connecticut
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Even BZK isn't really good for cleaning a wound. The best treatment is copious irrigation (after you've picked out all of the obvious debris) - potable water works fine. Some wilderness medical types advocate adding a little povidone-iodine to the water to make a "weak tea" colored solution. I've used the diluted betadine in the ED (before I was aware of some the studies against it), and the wounds turned out ok (they were all irrigated w/ plain sterile saline prior to closure, however).
Closing a wound in the woods w/ either sutures or glue, is generally a bad idea - the risk of infection is typically greater with a closed, contaminated wound, than just having an open wound.
The medical grade superglue (Dermabond)is n-octylcyanoacrylate, and for other than superficial, small, very clean-edged wounds under little tension, doesn't tend to work as great as you would think.
All of the little swabs/towelettes/etc... are meant to be used on relatively intact skin - fine for a small abrasion, but not for deeper wounds.
And although many of us (including myself) have used such things successfully in the past, this is, more often than not, an example of our body healing not because of something we've done, but in spite of it. The body is very resilient, and even the biggest wounds can heal with proper hygiene & time. I've sent patients home w/ wounds big enough to put your hand in, and they've healed just fine, however, prematurely closed wounds can and have led to systemic sepsis.
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#87313 - 03/04/07 04:41 PM
Re: GLUE THOSE BODY PARTS!!! ??? FOR BILLYM
[Re: Flotsam]
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Addict
Registered: 12/01/05
Posts: 616
Loc: Oakland, California
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Even BZK isn't really good for cleaning a wound. The best treatment is copious irrigation (after you've picked out all of the obvious debris) - potable water works fine. Some wilderness medical types advocate adding a little povidone-iodine to the water to make a "weak tea" colored solution. I've used the diluted betadine in the ED (before I was aware of some the studies against it), and the wounds turned out ok (they were all irrigated w/ plain sterile saline prior to closure, however).
Closing a wound in the woods w/ either sutures or glue, is generally a bad idea - the risk of infection is typically greater with a closed, contaminated wound, than just having an open wound.
The medical grade superglue (Dermabond)is n-octylcyanoacrylate, and for other than superficial, small, very clean-edged wounds under little tension, doesn't tend to work as great as you would think.
All of the little swabs/towelettes/etc... are meant to be used on relatively intact skin - fine for a small abrasion, but not for deeper wounds.
And although many of us (including myself) have used such things successfully in the past, this is, more often than not, an example of our body healing not because of something we've done, but in spite of it. The body is very resilient, and even the biggest wounds can heal with proper hygiene & time. I've sent patients home w/ wounds big enough to put your hand in, and they've healed just fine, however, prematurely closed wounds can and have led to systemic sepsis. Thanks Flotsam for the expert advice. Bill
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