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#87203 - 03/03/07 02:58 AM Navigation Difficulties
gryps Offline
Aspiring Ant
Newbie

Registered: 05/19/06
Posts: 44
Loc: New Rochelle,NY, USA
According to an Associated Press article dated March 2, 2007, a company (170 soldiers) of Swiss soldiers lost their way during a nighttime exercise and marched into neighboring Lichtenstein. Apparently, noone in Lichtenstein noticed the troops before they realized where they were and returned to Switzerland.

Here is one link to the article: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-mistaken-invasion,0,2907128.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
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#87209 - 03/03/07 03:58 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: gryps]
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
You know I have a few GPS units here I don't use much...

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#87211 - 03/03/07 04:18 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: gryps]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Gee, they wandered "...just over a mile..." across the border. I'm not gonna tell you how far off course I have been when a little "confused"...
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#87218 - 03/03/07 04:53 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: OldBaldGuy]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
So, is Lichtenstien declaring war against the Swiss? smile
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#87242 - 03/03/07 04:33 PM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: oldsoldier]
obmeyer Offline


Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 31
Loc: Fairfax County VA
With their Army of nONE


Edited by obmeyer (03/03/07 04:34 PM)

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#87248 - 03/03/07 07:48 PM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: obmeyer]
Leigh_Ratcliffe Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/31/06
Posts: 1355
Loc: United Kingdom.
Lichtenstien have threatened to use their ultimate weapon. The Mother In Law.
The Swiss have surrendered.
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#87287 - 03/04/07 05:36 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: Leigh_Ratcliffe]
Jess Offline


Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 17
Loc: NJ, USA
It would be easy to wander over into Lichtenstein. I have been there and it is 2 miles wide... well, a little bigger than that, but not by much.


Edited by Jess (03/04/07 06:24 AM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#87290 - 03/04/07 06:11 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: gryps]
AROTC Offline
Addict

Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 604
Loc: Manhattan
Oh GOD! The Swiss are invading!

That's almost an oxymoron.
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#87302 - 03/04/07 01:47 PM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: gryps]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
What I take notice is; after straying off course for a mile, they realized their error and straightened out their course. That's not too bad since they did it on their own.
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#87739 - 03/08/07 08:38 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: gryps]
JCWohlschlag Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 724
Loc: Sterling, Virginia, United Sta...
In other news, Victorinox has released two new models of their Swiss Army Knives. The new ?U-Turn? model contains an integrated compass tool, while the ?SatKnife? model sports a full-featured GPS. laugh
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#87800 - 03/08/07 08:42 PM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: gryps]
Meline Offline
Newbie

Registered: 02/01/07
Posts: 48
Glad to see that the old saying applies to other armies as well;

Q. What's the fastest way to get lost?
A. Give the LT the map.

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#87806 - 03/08/07 10:44 PM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: Meline]
oldsoldier Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/25/06
Posts: 742
Loc: MA
Originally Posted By: Meline
Glad to see that the old saying applies to other armies as well;

Q. What's the fastest way to get lost?
A. Give the LT the map.


Truer words have never been spoken.... wink
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#87846 - 03/09/07 05:37 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: oldsoldier]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
'Specially if it is a butterbar...
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#87890 - 03/09/07 06:08 PM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: NightHiker]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
I suppose that's why it was an exercise -- now you know better than to hand the map to a Medical Service Corps Ensign. While he was off learning how to navigate inside your chest and patch battlefield wounds, others were learning that clouds are not good reference marks for navigation.

My navigation check ride OTOH went quite well, doing 300 KIAS I was over my target within 10 sec of my scheduled target time. I was just an Ensign too, but I didn't have anything to distract me like learning battlefield surgery.

So did you guys just laugh or did you try to teach him the error in his thinking?

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#87892 - 03/09/07 06:51 PM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: Russ]
Alex Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 1034
Loc: -
Not so funny at my taste. The clouds could be used as bearing aid. Just be observant to your surroundings all the time. In the ocean a solitary cloud or compact groups of them would usually stay over a distant (invisible) islands. Same on the land - above high mountain peaks below horizon or not visible in the woods. Noticing the direction of overcast clouds movement could be sufficient for a short term navigation difficulties resolution (like if you've lost bearing on some land object accidentally and have no compass).


Edited by Alex (03/09/07 06:52 PM)

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#87958 - 03/10/07 05:10 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: Russ]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
Ten seconds? And you passed??? laugh laugh laugh
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#87978 - 03/10/07 05:48 PM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Yeah, but that was the training command, they were lax smile

The good thing about that training is the thought process that's instilled. The chart was layed out with time hacks; if you stay on time you know what you should see and at what time -- don't be early, don't be late. My primary instrument was a stop watch.

There was a general rule that if you don't see your waypoints, then turn on time. Problem there is that we had guys flying into a headwind end up turning down the wrong valley. Trust me they never saw another waypoint. All they had to do was count ridgelines. crazy
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#87989 - 03/11/07 01:11 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: Russ]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
What were you flying, and where? Where we are parked right now we look at Widby Island out our windshield, and see Intruders roaring around all the time (I thougth they were gone, but I guess they still used them for training or something)...
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#87990 - 03/11/07 01:16 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: OldBaldGuy]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
the A6-E's (Electronics countermeasures) are stll being used.
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#87993 - 03/11/07 02:21 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: OldBaldGuy]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
The only low levels I got to fly were training flights. After that I did other stuff.

Are those Intruders or Prowlers? Whidbey still has lots of EA-6B Prowlers (until the FA-18F "Growler" replaces it), but I'm fairly sure the Intruders are all gone.

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#87998 - 03/11/07 02:52 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: Russ]
wildman800 Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 2851
Loc: La-USA
You're right! The intruders are gone but it's the prowlers that the Navy or Marines are still using.
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QMC, USCG (Ret)
The best luck is what you make yourself!

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#88005 - 03/11/07 03:48 AM Re: Navigation Difficulties [Re: Russ]
OldBaldGuy Offline
Geezer

Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
I haven't had a close enough look to see if they are Prowlers or not, could only tell by the shape that they were one or the other. Have to keep looking I guess, but you are probably right, they are Prowlers...
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